When is digital going to get the soul of music?

>>What is shocking is my system has been picked twice over a system exactly like yours.<<

I'm afraid my speculative friend you have no idea what my system is comprised of so to say yours has been picked over it twice (by whom, where, etc.) is simply ridiculous and disingenuous. You really should not make such assertions without empirical data; to do so is a bad mark on your character.

No more soup for you here. Private email me if you choose to continue.

D-Edwards,

2'000 - 3'000 "analogic" people ? Where ?

I must say that like everyone, I enjoy all the practical advantages of digital gear, simple clic, etc
I just say that I enjoy more analogic sound than digital, owing very good gear in both fields : so, I still listen to analogic and buy LP's - less than CD's and SACD's, that's true (choice and practical advantages).

I have around 1'000 LP's and 1'000 CD's & SACD's.

One thing is sure : it takes pretty much money to have a very good analogic gear : turntable, tonearm and cartridge.
But, as I said, for me, I spent as much money in my CD/SACD player (Accuphase DP85 I love) as in my analogic stuff Michell Orbe, Rega RB1000 and Lyra Titan (if I except, my analogic preamplifier, a Lamm LP2, I must say).

I believe that you can have a very good analogic sound with 7'000$ (turntable, tonearm, cartridge, for new stuff.
Less - possibly much less - if you find good used stuff.
Of course, if you spend more money you will have something even better : but over a certain level, price, the improvement is much less obvious than the the increase of the bill...

Something else : there is a beauty in turntable, tonearm, cartridge similar to the one of a great mechanical watch compared with a quartz one. Some people are sensitive to that, but it's probably true that most people who own both analogic and digital gear are older than those who were born at the digital era.
There may be a nostalgic feeling towards the "original" sound, the analogic sound we have been used to as children and teenagers !
Eventually, I understand perfectly well people who prefer digital, its dynamics, for instance.
I just say that I prefer analogic simply because it sounds closer to reality to my ears.

Adhoc;

We believe much of the same things except we are on opposite side of the line. I believe in and recognize the romance and nostalgia as you point out and please note I have had 10K records and still have atleast 2500.

I have had turntables from VPI, SOTA, Well Tempered, Linn and Roksan.

And preamps from AR, EAR, MOTIF, Audible Illusions

The thing is records are history, they are not coming back and when it comes to 24bit digital they aren't even close to the same quality.

I still (although rarely) get paid to setup turntables, I am still considered an analog expert by some people. Funny I know. But I know more about analog than I do digital right now, I bet you can you the same thing?

I know you "prefer" analog, but that doesn't make it better. I know why you prefer analog and it has to do with your system. A Subaru STi can mop up any Ferrari on a gravel dirt road, if you design a car for a particular enviroment it will outperform a superior car out of its element.

Analog and Digital are so different in what they demand from a system design to be their "best" you will almost never reach an equality between the two. I have tried for over a decade to get a balance and its difficult. My success with playing music in surround put an end to my struggles with analog as digital with surround is just too much for the LP to withstand.

We have to let go of the LP, so the hobby can move forward. $7,000+ turntables are never going to be supported widely, so we have to accept that if you have analog keep it enjoy it, but stop saying its better, because it isn't even close to what we can get from digital.

Let me use this analogy, sometime this year Brett Favre will stop being the Packers QB, its because he isn't getting any better and no matter how good he is now and how good he was, the Packers need to develop a new QB to attempt to solidify their future.

We have to support a digital format to fuel its development, the LP's best days are over. In four years we will put it in the Hall of Fame.

Digital is so much more than just a format, it get into room eq and other capabilites that will take audio to the next level.

Those who love analog sure love to bash digital....
I have yet to come across a thread which started the other way round....when will Analog get the soul of music, what is wrong with analog, for example?

I understand perfectly all that tweaking, cleaning, mechanical beauty stuff and the need to bash digital, after all Digital is about Digit (numbers) and Analog is about Alan (behavior)

There I go again with my digital bad habits, I can't help the jitter messing up some of the bits, even as I write. And what is missed can't be filled in by our ears/brains, at least not by us less retentive folks.

Audiofeil, I might agree with you. The problem is sometimes with digital we accept less. As an example, I refer to my, "instant relaxation" statement. Audiofeil and D_edwards, we are all after music, aren't we? Surely, as talented as both of you are, we can all get something from both of you? Adhoc(here comes my ignorance), you didn't mention this, but I will repeat it. Ones and zeroes(on or off) aren't music. So what if you sample it at 196khz. What does that mean? It seems to me that you are just not limiting the highs(I may be wrong here.). My cd player(APL Denon 3910) doesn't unsample regular cd's, and the highs are fine(I know, my speakers!). Regular cd's are, what, 44kz? Now, we come to bits(The only stupid question is the one unasked.). 24 bits(or more) versus 16 bits(regular cd)-what does that mean? There are more ones and zeroes within a given physical area? Anyhow, in practical terms, the mechanicals of turntable playback introduce inconsistencies, that with a proper cd-player(i.e., APL 3910) are, to me, about equal. I'm not talking about arm and cartridge here. I'm talking about level, belt, and springs. I once dialed in a turntable correctly(Ariston RD 11e, with Grace 707, and ADC XLM 3), and it involved dropping the motor from the top-board. People(i.e., Fremer of Stereophile) shouldn't discount what Roksan has done with their motor.