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Learning To Listen

I’m frequently astonished when I hear the description of a soundstage by someone who really knows what he’s talking about. The Stereophile crew, Steve Gutenberg, and countless others hear—or claim to hear— when one violinist’s chair is out of line from the others and when the percussion players were forced into the bathroom because the studio was full. Issues like where the mices were placed, who stood where, and where the coffee pot was located are child’s play for these guys. 


Is it “mices” or “mikes?”


This seems to be a skill, like juggling, which one could learn with a little knowledge and a little practice. Some of the super listeners have said as much. But search though I might, I can’t find the key to the kingdom, the door to the fortress, the . . . all right, I’ll stop beating that particular horse.


But if someone could point me to the Cat In The Hat, The Horton Hears Who, the McGillogoty’s Pond of the subject you would have my eternal gratitude.




paul6001
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,464 posts
 
Fact is it helps to be good listener if you are an audiophile.  Otherwise your card may be revoked. 
paul6001 OP
98 posts
 
When you look at a piece of art by Robert Ryman, it’s impossible to understand it without knowing a little bit about art history and knowing that Ryman was reacting against the heroic nature of the abstract expressionists who preceded him. (It doesn’t make Ryman any better, IMHO, but at least you know what he was doing.)

Audio “journalism” is clearly part of the high end marketing machine but when they talk about a system placing the musicians in space with such precision, when they talk about the soundstage extending horizontally outside the range of the speakers, when they talk about a three dimensional soundstage in which some of the musicians are behind other musicians, I’m lost. 

Sometimes the piano comes more strongly out of the left side than the right. If I close my eyes and direct my thoughts towards the task, I can imagine the piano player being on the left side. But that’s not exactly what these “journalists” are talking about. 

(I used to be a journalist and I’m protective of the term. “Working together, it took company CEO and myself only two days to build and position the speakers.” Are you kidding me? Whoever is writing that nonsense shouldn’t even be allowed to use words that start with “J”.)

As I see it, there are three possibilities why this “journalist” sees precision that I can’t even begin to grasp: 1) My $3,000 system doesn’t buy me admission to this phenomenon, 2) It’s all BS, 3) I lack knowledge or understanding that the “journalist” has.


As to the first possibility, my LS50s are said to throw a soundstage so I don’t think that’s the problem. I’m not in a position, don’t have enough knowledge, to declare this to be BS. But there’s lots I don’t know, much like I could look at a Ryman and not know what he was trying to do.


MillerCarbon’s very presence has attracted much of the action (that guy must have some history on this forum) but he encourages me to learn the terminology. I know a good bit of the terminology and it doesn’t help. Others are referring me to out of date links. I appreciate the effort but the question I ask can’t be an obscure one. I can’t be the first person to run into this wall. Answers should abound. I should have found them myself with Google without ever resorting to this board. If ignorance is my problem, I shouldn’t need Daryl Wilson in my basement to find an answer.


I’ve been listening to music for 40 years played out of every form of reproduction in existence so I don’t think that lack of experience is my problem.


Someone please tell me that I haven’t stumbled into yet another area where men who are smart enough to accumulate enough money to blow 100K on a stereo system live in a world of illusion. What does acoustic science say on the subject? If I was at Juilliard, what would they teach me in my intro classes? Hasn’t KEF, so helpful in so many ways, published something?
oregonpapa's avatar
oregonpapa
4,867 posts
 
MC sez ...

  • "This is where a lot of the double-blind bias BS comes from. People who never learned to listen cannot hear anything there and so presume there really is nothing there. Prove it to me! They say. Learn to listen, you won’t need anyone to prove anything. You will know."
Bingo! 

I especially liked the driving analogy that MC put out there. Here's another one ... I see yahoos riding motorcycles and bicycles in a dangerous fashion all the time. These are street riders. In order to become a safe motorcyclist or bicyclists, one needs to not only learn how to just ride safely, but also learn how to get out of trouble, and how to recover from dangerous situations. When it comes to motorcycles, one should ride dirt bikes for a period of time before attempting to ride on the street. Becoming a competent dirt rider will save your pitui on the street.

When it comes to becoming a good listener in the audio hobby, one should become very familiar with live music. Pay attention to the tones of live instruments. Then, try to emulate those tones in one's audio system. 

Frank  
paul6001 OP
98 posts
 
Light in the darkness:

https://audioengineusa.com/explore/what-is-a-soundstage/
paul6001 OP
98 posts
 
My apologies. That article is essentially a great introductory paragraph. Just when you think, “Aha! Now we’re going to get somewhere,” it’s over and they try to sell you speakers.”
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