The Absolute Sound vs Pleasing Sound

Blind test are valid in their SHORT range of applications,

small changes difficult to detect or statistical needs to erase human choices in medical research for example,

BUT they are no more valid to decide if the feeling for a stradivarius is ONLY AND MAINLY a BIAS not founded on a real quality herited and learned through history, but instead an arbitrary fad which the test is supposed to reveal....

The reason for that are touch upon in the pots of frogman, i will not repeat that...


Biases are universal and in all human choices, nobody could question that in his sane mind...

The use of blind test to PROVE that all biases, or preferences are purely arbirary, or deceptive is a use of blind test OUT of their normal range of useful application for the need of an "ideological" perspective, itself an unconscious bias....

"Here’s a simple truth about bias and placebo effect: Neither will cure cancer. No blind test is needed to prove that."

That is a bit too profound for Sunday morning.

Bias, or not, what was the result of perception of Guarneri vs. Stradivari? Forget about newer models.

Not every opinion is the result of bias.

I appreciate your post cleeds but i will make a precision...

Every opinion become a bias, but all opinion are not unfounded orientation of the mind or useless and meaningless habit, some opinion and unconscious bias are motivated by learning and listening, or any slow acquisition of knowledge...

All biases are prejudices but some prejudices are more meaningful than others.... Call them informed orientation of the subsconcscious and conscious mind...

Then pretending using blind test to reveal bias in the sense of unfounded and meaningless habits that oriented our choices is very delicate because there exist also bias that are meaningful and founded on real meaning and knowledge process acquisition...


Then the range of application of blind test is only ERASING the presence of ANY bias in a test for small change or for statistical methodology....

Not for proving that the taste for stradivarius is meaningless and non sense habit reflecting only arbitrary bias like the taste of a supposed deluded audiophile....

Erasing biases from an experiment CANNOT prove that the biases eliminated were all non sense choices or deceptives one EVER to begins with....This is science fact.... The other interpretation is cheap scientist ideology ....

Blind test are useful not for PROVING anything, it is ONLY a tool to eliminate human choices for statistical reason....

Any other use is childish epistemology.....Or epistemology for fanatic.... Pick you choice....

That’s one of the ironies about the measurementalists here. They’ll even often refuse to listen to test whether their theories are valid - they have that much faith in their belief system.

The other irony: The measurementalists frequently apply ill logic to their claims, so it makes meaningful conversation with them virtually impossible. Many of these measurementalists are here solely to argue, so these apparent inconsistencies suit them just fine.

For sure you are right on the sensible spot.....

For example if we read one of this childish fanatic:

I do enjoy the mental gymnastics to attempt to wave away bias. Bias exists. Period. Only way to eliminate is to blind test. Take weeks, just do it blind. You don’t have magical powers.

He accuse people to refuse to eliminate their own experience, learning, knowledge, because of the blind test....

He does not realize that using blind test can never make all bias equal, founded and unfounded one, the test can erase them in "artificial conditions" useful statistically but meaningless to decide if some bias are meaningful and others not... And THIS is the important point....

He want to prove that all audiophiles perceptions are pure deceptive "taste" unfounded in reality....Then he devise a blind test supposed to reveal that... But no blindtest coud scientifically do that.... Erasing biases they can do it....Proving that ALL biases are meaningless they cannot do it by virtue of being blind choices in "artificial" conditions....

Frogman only insist on that point... But it sems that this distinction ask for too much brain power to be grasped by some....

Audio2design accuse audiophiles to boast their magical power.... It is a straw man argument so big that explaining it, is like explainig philisophy to babies... Anyway... I will explain it shortly: any audiophile like any violin player has a set of subtles acquired perceptives habits that are powerful tool but ONLY in a specfic environment and with some very usual and known parameters...Changing them provoke most of the times the lost of the acquired perceiving knowledge...Stres, unusual conditions, any modifications....


Then erasing bias is science statiscally sound method, using it to PROVE anything is no more science...
The strategy of audio2design is childish.... To say the least....