The Absolute Sound vs Pleasing Sound


I have changed my mind about this over the years. The absolute sound (closest to real live music) just can't be accomplished even though I have heard some spectacular systems that get close on some music. So years ago I changed my system to give me the sound I wanted. I'm much happier now and all my music collection can be enjoyed for what it is: Recorded music.  
russ69
To my point, biases are not transferable, not in audio, not even in society, even if many share the same biases. There is no way of knowing. However, absolutes are transferable, and yes, there are absolutes.
Head coinciding with the location of ass is called gymnastic not epistemology...




The important words in your sentences here is the beginning unconscious wording : " To my point.. "
which can be translated by : never mind the accepted meaning of " bias", for my agenda the meaning of "bias" is......


The problem is there exist a general definition of the word "bias"

I will use wikipedia definition:

«

Bias is a disproportionate weight in favor of or against an idea or thing, usually in a way that is closed-minded, prejudicial, or unfair. Biases can be innate or learned. People may develop biases for or against an individual, a group, or a belief.[1] In science and engineering, a bias is a systematic error. Statistical bias results from an unfair sampling of a population, or from an estimation process that does not give accurate results on average.[2]»





Reading the citation i extracted from your post and the wiki general definition demonstrate clearly that you dont know what is a bias objectively... IT CAN BE "INNATE OR LEARNED"....Contrary to what you explicitly said.... And the 2 at the same time yes...



I will add to the uncomplete wiki definition that a bias could also be the 2 at the same times, innate AND learned in specific collective and cultural context....


You said that "biases" are not transferable nor learned but the general accepted definition says like i said myself all the times in all my posts here, to no avail, that they are...

Not surprizing that with 2 defiintion of the word "bias", a true one and a false one, the discussion is impossible with you...



The only absolute reality transferable for you is the objective reading of a number on a measuring dial... 

Which is the fallacy of the measuring gear measuring itself without needing a brain to interpret it with his learned biases... Your notion of Science is like the the well known baron lifting itself by his own hairs...This is your "gymnastic"...You called this gymnastic science...I called it technocratic deception or superstition...

You reduced "bias" to the partial view of being something impeding with the lecture of your own measuring dial apparatus in digital engineering in ALL your posts...Timbre perception is an audiophile taste only, not a real complex concept in acoustic.... Imaging concept is reducible to physical design of speakers location, specific drivers types  etc All that is erroneous and limited narrow views of these deep acoustical concepts...





Why is the word " bias" related to a " SYSTEMATIC error" in the general definition?

Because a bias is a concept primarily belonging to statistic methodology ....


Then using blind test and bias out of a statistical context to prove an agenda about what is real or not, what is subjective and objective or not, in an absolute sense, is an abuse of the scientific methodology...Especially when we called "bias" anything which impede with our own agenda...The confirming bias fallacy here :Blindtest ONLY confirm reality and all that exist really could be confirm to exist by blind test...



But you reduced from the beginning "bias" to the partial view of being anything impeding with the lecture of your own measuring dial apparatus in digital engineering...Then audiophiles unable to read and trust only these dials are deceived idiots...


The problem is your view of reality is simplistic if not childish, a technological fad and habit....


Guess who is deceived here, and worst, deceiving others?






Post removed 
Joking is not an argument nor an answer to the precise points i just made...

Are you able to be truthfull to a line of thinking when thinking and speaking?

It is not useful to answer now.... My question dont need an answer now....But only a reflexion...

If you dont answer to the argument of my preceding post FIRST and recognizing your defectuous use of the concept "bias", no new answer of you are valuable for the continuity of the discussion...

When someone point me wrong, being myself intelligent, i recognize immediately or try hard to understand if it is the case, that i am wrong if i am wrong....

Truth is more valuable than winning a pointless discussion ....And the truth ask for you to say that you wrongly used the concept of "bias" with the wrong definition all along the discussion...

Biases are innate OR learned, and for some of them they are also innate AND learned...Not recognizing this fact by a joke will not save your face and ass in this discussion...

Gymnastic and logical fallacies are not part of epistemology nor of audio engineering, being it digital or purely acoustical....

Blind test are useful test in a statistic methodological context, or fun and "useful" one with very limited range and scope, BUT not proof of existence or inexistance of phenomena by only themselves in the absolute sense of the word "proof"... "Bias" is an operational concept.... Not an argument you can throw at the head of someone....

Discussion closed.....

I cannot see how epistemology would have anything to do with showing, or not showing, if there is a certain effect on the sound by whatever. It is completely different genre, so to speak. Its topic has nothing to do with "is it here, or is it not here". It is not apples and oranges. It is veterinary reproductive science explaining that the span of the chain bridge over the big river is just right for windy day walks.
russ69
Putting an audio system together that is satisfying is the main point ... People buy gear, but it in their system and listen to the results ... Long term evaluation is how that is accomplished. You cannot fool yourself for very long if the system is not to your liking. Short term evaluation or short term testing is very unreliable ...
Exactly, and that's among the challenges for those trying to conduct scientifically valid listening tests. Those who bleat about expectation bias and placebo effect don't seem to understand that neither can cure cancer, and neither will make a poor sounding audio system sound better.