Dear cab , it is not quite the case that “most“ of us do not think anti-skate is necessary. It seems to me that stringreen is the only one of us who consistently maintains that anti-skate is unnecessary, and he is using a VPI tonearm, which is notorious for its lack of an anti-skate device as originally conceived and for not seeming to require AS, possibly because its wiring pulls the arm wand outward enough to provide suitable AS force . After that, there are a few who are agnostic about anti-skate. But the fact remains that if you are using a conventional pivoted tonearm that places the stylus tip overhanging the spindle, inevitably there will be a skating force all across the LP. Whether that force causes audible distortion or not, for sure it is placing a stress on the cantilever and stylus that might eventually make itself known in the form of aberrant premature stylus wear. I would add that Mijostyn is incorrect in saying that the skating force diminishes gradually as the stylus moves toward the spindle, implying that the decay is linear from outer to inner. In fact the skating force is varying all the time in a nonlinear manner and is near or at maximum at the innermost grooves, depending upon the alignment used. Furthermore, I don’t know where he got the rule that anti-skate should be equal to 10% of the VTF, if one could measure AS. I guess he is taking measurements with his invention. But none of us has access to his invention, so for any of us it would be impossible to follow that rule. However, I agree with the sentiment that one should try to use the minimum amount of anti-skate that works to produce an undistorted sound and no visible deflection of the cantilever . I would not use a grooveless LP for anything. But you probably know all this stuff. You are wondering why your own particular antiskate device seems to be either malfunctioning or not functioning at all. From your descriptions, and your responses, I too am at a loss.
Help! Antiskate with only a weight...no dial, and she's skating away!
I have a project rpm 10 carbon with 10cc evolution tonearm that has a weight on a string for antiskate. There are three notches on which to attach the string based upon the tracking force range of the cartridge. I currently have an ortofon cadenza bronze tracking at 2.5g and have the antiskate weight in the appropriate notch (according to the Pro-ject manual) from which it hangs. The table is level--checked and adjusted to ensure. The tracking force is at 2.514g (the range for the cadenza is 2.2-2.7 with 2.5 suggested by ortofon) checked with a digital scale (Riverstone Audio digital scale). The soundstage sounds great, vocals are centered, other instruments are placed in space according to the recording... Also the alignment was carefully set up using the WallyTractor and is spot on.
But sometimes when I lower the stylus to the lead in groove, it will slide very quickly towards the spindle as though no antiskate were present (it doesn’t skip over the record, it falls into the first song groove--and yes I have confirmed that the stylus is present). But it’s a big jump vs just sliding into the groove.
So I found a blank side of an album and lowered the stylus onto the surface and it immediately slid all the way across the surface towards the spindle as though no antiskate were in play. I then disengaged the antiskate weight and experienced the same (expectedly so). But there seemed to be little or no difference between antiskate being engaged/disengaged.
So I engaged the weight again and lowered the stylus, but this time I placed a little extra force on the weight with my finger and was able to get the tonearm to stay in position--applicable antiskate force in play with this extra force. Of course, I have no way of measuring how much extra weight I applied.
The help I need:
Why is the recommended antiskate parameters set by pro-ject seemingly having no effect?
Is something else wrong?
The table and tonearm are obviously manufactured to handle this level of VTF, no?
The tonearm wires don’t appear to be impeding the arm movement.
What can I do to remedy this?
Do I need to do something to remedy this?
I wonder if I’m causing harm to the cantilever with what appears to be no antiskate, yet the music sounds great and the Analogue productions test LP record antiskate tracks "sound" equal to my ears. (But my ears aren’t young anymore, so I don’t think I can place full confidence in that audible test).
Any thoughts, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
But sometimes when I lower the stylus to the lead in groove, it will slide very quickly towards the spindle as though no antiskate were present (it doesn’t skip over the record, it falls into the first song groove--and yes I have confirmed that the stylus is present). But it’s a big jump vs just sliding into the groove.
So I found a blank side of an album and lowered the stylus onto the surface and it immediately slid all the way across the surface towards the spindle as though no antiskate were in play. I then disengaged the antiskate weight and experienced the same (expectedly so). But there seemed to be little or no difference between antiskate being engaged/disengaged.
So I engaged the weight again and lowered the stylus, but this time I placed a little extra force on the weight with my finger and was able to get the tonearm to stay in position--applicable antiskate force in play with this extra force. Of course, I have no way of measuring how much extra weight I applied.
The help I need:
Why is the recommended antiskate parameters set by pro-ject seemingly having no effect?
Is something else wrong?
The table and tonearm are obviously manufactured to handle this level of VTF, no?
The tonearm wires don’t appear to be impeding the arm movement.
What can I do to remedy this?
Do I need to do something to remedy this?
I wonder if I’m causing harm to the cantilever with what appears to be no antiskate, yet the music sounds great and the Analogue productions test LP record antiskate tracks "sound" equal to my ears. (But my ears aren’t young anymore, so I don’t think I can place full confidence in that audible test).
Any thoughts, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
- ...
- 40 posts total
@lewm , I did not say that skating will decrease linearly over the record. The force is waxing and waning depending on modulation. In average it decreases slightly towards the end of the record playing surface. If the arm could get to the spindle it would increase quite dramatically but not out in the run out groove. Skating is present everywhere and is in average substantial. As for the 10% of VTF that is not my figure. 9 to 11% is the range generally accepted by the industry and used to calibrate their devices. The Wallskater https://www.wallyanalog.com/wallyskater measures this in a clever (but expensive) way. I measure it directly just by turning the force 90 degrees into a stylus gauge. Not rocket science. I am taking it on faith that around 10% of VTF is a good place to be. It is a very difficult thing to ascertain. Just because a certain setting produces the lowest distortion on one test record does not mean it will do the same on any album. Somewhere in that area +- 10% seems reasonable. You can easily hear what happens if you stray to far one way or the other on any test record. At any rate it is nice to have a number to work to. That way I can make sure I am right on something I can not possibly be right on on? Don't get me started on VPI arms and no antiskating. That marketing stunt made sure I would never look at a VPI product. cabalaska, make sure that arm got mounted correctly and check the arm length and overhang!! |
@cabalaska Please do this test. Remove platter. Remove antiskate weight. Balance the arm/cartridge to zero - so the arm is floating. If the arm at zero balance, with no anti skate floats in or out then the arm mount is not level. This could be the cause of your problem. Often times turntable arm mounts are not on the same plane as the platter, which means if you level the platter the horizintal arm bearings are not level. |
- 40 posts total