Turntables.....A point of diminishing returns?

At least an expensive TT requires considerable production work compared to a phono cartridge!

Whats is the reason to discuss some of the ugliest and most expensive things instead of discussion about something beautiful and affordable ? Why you are so concerned about something you can’t even buy anyway? 

I'd like to say beauty is in the eye of the beholder....that is one ugly turn table. 

I think they need to include some sort of turn table screen with it so the buyer only has to listen to it!

Playing with VTA on the screen while playing might be fun for about 5 minutes.  After that I probably would trade it in for another ridiculous hi end turntable and repeat the process-enjoy the novelty and become jaded.

Meanwhile a Rega, VPI or whatever is sitting on another shelf getting regular play.

There seems to be a point that an audio system, thru improvements, is about as good as it will sound. At least to the owner.

True. In the sense that wherever you decide to stop, that is about as good as it will be.

The idea of diminishing returns however I have to say is bunk. And I know it is bunk because I have been doing this a very long time. My system is tweaked to the max. Find another one out there doing everything I am. Go ahead. I really want you to do this. NOT to show off how good I am but because I relish the opportunity to find someone else with some ideas I haven’t thought of that will make my already incredible system better still.

This is no idle boast. I am currently talking with several different guys about crossover upgrades. There’s guys out there with way more experience who know these subjects way better than me, and I am smart enough to seek them out and pay attention when they speak. Which caps, resistors, and inductors will work the best for me? I’ve done this enough to know even the great builders like Eric leave a whole lot on the table. Same for amps. Same for turntables.

You asked specifically about turntables so here goes. I started with a Basis. Upgraded it by hardwiring a better power cord to it. At this point I didn’t really know what if anything to expect. Just thought I would try it. This cheap $75 power cord made a real improvement.

That’s $75 for improvement on a $2500 turntable. Are you with me here? Where are the diminishing returns?

Next I upgraded the whole motor to the Teres motor pod. Greater cost, greater improvement. Hard to quantify these things let’s just say I got more than made me happy. Nowhere near diminishing returns on the motor.

Skip ahead to where I have made the Miller Carbon turntable. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 The first iteration of this cost not much more than I got from selling the Basis. Diminishing? Ha! Increasing is more like it!

Am I done? No way! Let’s take just one tiny little part: the bearing. Inside the stock $250 or whatever it is bearing are a brass thrust plate and stainless steel ball bearing. After noticing a lot of wear I did some R&D came up with what I thought were better materials replaced the factory bits and heard a really nice improvement- much lower noise floor, greater detail, improved dynamics. Not bad for $10 worth of ball bearings.

I could go on and on all day with examples like this.

Let’s cut to the chase. Anyone says there are diminishing returns, there are only two real possibilities. One, it means they are tired or spent and looking for an excuse to stop. Well if that’s your story knock it off. What you should be doing instead of making up excuses is sitting back enjoying what you have accomplished! Enjoy what you have, relish it, don’t go knocking the other guy who by the way probably also happens to be enjoying it, he just continues to go for more.

Or two, and this is the big one: you’re doing it wrong! A system is only as good as the sum of its parts. There are a LOT of parts! The turntable you are focused on right now is made up of a whole lot of parts. Bearing, platter, plinth, you know the drill. Each and every one of those is just sitting there waiting for you to come along and figure out how to unleash its potential for improved sound.

If you think there are diminshing returns it is probably because you have spent your money on the hamster wheel of perpetually chasing the next component. When instead of spending thousands on an amp you learn to spend tens on caps, or hundreds on Townshend Pods, Synergistic Fuses and ECT, fO.Q tape, things like that, then you will understand why I say diminishing returns are bunk.

Go and try it, you will see.