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Speakers The single most critical component

I know we've been over this Q hundreds of X's over the past 20 years here on audion, You can find dozen of topics dealing with this Q <which is the ,,,,most important component...>>
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system. 
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me  , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires  some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter)  in  the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity. 
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity  single drivers. 
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style  aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs. 
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic. 
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
 a  kt88 in brand X will sound  close to brand Y. 
So amplification takes a  distant 2nd place in critical component.  No need to break the bank buying amp A vs  a  lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all  tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound  close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is  only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
 the Shanling
only a  miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17. 
Now as for  best source  , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds. 
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy. 
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where  the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity  voicing  issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker  you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years, 
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances. 
To sum up, a  ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver. 
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity. 

mozartfan
herman
2,251 posts
 
Garbage in = garbage out is a red herring.. even entry level source and amps are pretty good.. therefore there is no "garbage in". There is a little bit better in, there is I like the sound of that in a little better than another in, but there is no garbage in.

ALL speakers are colored, have the highest levels of distortion of all components by a LARGE margin, and have the most severe limitations when it comes to integrating them into the room.... so this is actually a stupid debate. You have to find a speaker that fits your room and your tastes. What comes before is icing on the cake,, the speaker is the cake.

1. Drive a $1000 speaker with a $100,000 front end and it sounds like a $1000 speaker.

2. Drive $100,000 speakers with a $1000 front end and its not as good as it can be, but it will sound much better than #1

end of debate, you can close this thread



mahgister's avatar
mahgister
12,997 posts
 
Garbage in = garbage out is a red herring.. even entry level source and amps are pretty good.. therefore there is no "garbage in". There is a little bit better in, there is I like the sound of that in a little better than another in, but there is no garbage in.

ALL speakers are colored, have the highest levels of distortion of all components by a LARGE margin, and have the most severe limitations when it comes to integrating them into the room.... so this is actually a stupid debate. You have to find a speaker that fits your room and your tastes. What comes before is icing on the cake,, the speaker is the cake.

1. Drive a $1000 speaker with a $100,000 front end and it sounds like a $1000 speaker.

2. Drive $100,000 speakers with a $1000 front end and its not as good as it can be, but it will sound much better than #1

end of debate, you can close this thread
I like very much your first paragraph affirmation , and i concur with it totally....

All what you say after miss the essential point...

The room is the cake, you must design a room with all the passive and active acoustical controls necessary to help your speakers...

Ask any acoustician, the best speakers sound bad in a bad room and good in a good room.... Less pricey speakers will beat costly one if put in a good room and the pricey one in a bad room...

Go on youtube et listen pricey speakers in a bad room there is plenty to listen to..... I prefer my 50 dollars used speakers in my controlled room than many very very  costly one ...


We never listen to speakers....

We listen to room/speakers....

Let the debate going on please....We will keep the thread .... 😊
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
ALL speakers are colored, have the highest levels of distortion of all components by a LARGE margin


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Finally after 40 years of testing, thinking, pondering, yes agree,
Speakers will be the most critical component. There are so many box/xover speakers that will ruin even a  $100k Jadis set up or any other $100k set up of your own choice. Mine just happened to be Jadis. That said, as i mentioned above several times. Richard Gray lent me  2 of his loan amps, while the Defy was undergoing new Caps/new resistors, new internal wires.
The Dyanco ST50 and his Allan Organ monos, both were very close to the $9k/new Defy7. 
= a  KT88 = almost any other KT88. Although that is a blanket statement. There are some tube designs that just <<got it wrong>>, 
Point  is, you do not need to worry about amplification, nor much of source, phoono is superior to cd for sure, however most of my classical is not found on LP, so now i addeda  phono and have started collecting some  classical(Pettersson symphonies) which i also have the cd as well.
Glad a  few discerning audiophiles can help me out in this  heated debate. 
There are so many speakers of the box/xover design when used with any tube amplification, which  will drastically lower the purity and fidelity of the source. 
Hopefully after we close this topic, my 2 mantras will plant seeds in newbies minds  which decades later will take root.
1) speakers are the single critical component
2) FR are the King of all speaker designs
3) compression TI Horns are the king of all tweets added to a  FR
I can not even give away the Thors right now, like most xover/box designs they just sit on various sites as if in a  junk yard. 
You will rarely, if EVER finda  <<Used FR>> on the market. Snaped up in less than 1 week, at near full price. 
I rest my case.


mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
Let the debate going on please....We will keep the thread .... 😊

~~~~~~~~~~
If we do not openly, freely , with civility discuss this speaker  issue, how will we ever get to the bottom of things?
Agree, let the discussion continue. 
I can tell you as of now, my mind is as shut /closed even more so than my worship of the Thors, which now i hate with a passion, although i could have sworn in my YT uploads these were <,Nirvana>> THen a  single 6.5 FR , like David, slew the Goliath. 
Now i am a  devotee  of only 1 speaker design, FR/Compression combo. 
Nothing from Troels Gravesen's lab could even remotely change my mind. 
I  was indoctrinated into the old school, now i am a  awakened believer.

mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
db efficiency
Efficacy, affectivity, effect. 
all this comes into play when employing a speaker with any tube amplifier.
Not only SET amplifiers , also push pull requires if not demands, if to say <match made in heaven>  has to be paired with a  FR driver. 
This is physics.
Its not rocket science. 
Its common sense. 
Employing any speaker of the old school box/xover design you are severely compromising the life of a  tube and  crippling the tubes ability to perform as it was designed to perform. 
We were born and raised on box/xover designs, now its time to leave that all behind us, as we enter the 21st century audiophile cosmos. 
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