2. speakers
  3. 166005-136265

Speakers The single most critical component

I know we've been over this Q hundreds of X's over the past 20 years here on audion, You can find dozen of topics dealing with this Q <which is the ,,,,most important component...>>
well time for yet 1 more topic dealing with this,, perhaps unanswered, un-resolved issue.
I'm bringing up the old hachet due to my recent experience acutally hearinga FR in my system. 
Let me tell you, there is not even 1 traditional/conventioanl/xover design <The Boxed Type>> in the world that could convince me  , there is something that will beat out FR (caveat, FR requires  some sort of high sens =sensitivity, tweeter)  in  the Boxy world of speakers.
That is to say, FR + Compression Horn is the future of 21st Century high fidelity. 
One lab has already brought us these ~~~SHF~~~ aka SuperHighFidelity  single drivers. 
The code word here is ~~SHF~~~ which can not never be employed when describing xover/trad/conventioanl style  aka The Box designs. db level under 91 are _<<IN-EFFICIENT>> , = dysfunctional, out dated, old school , = Dinasaurs. 
For amps, I only consider tube amps (PP and SET) as ~~SHF~~~ I can not include ss amps in this topic. 
IMHO all well made tube amps sound very close,
 a  kt88 in brand X will sound  close to brand Y. 
So amplification takes a  distant 2nd place in critical component.  No need to break the bank buying amp A vs  a  lower priced kt88 amp B
CD players, nearly all  tube DAC's , tube cdp-ers sound  close. No need to braek the bank over X vs Y.
My Jadis DAC is  only miniscule gain over the Shanling,
 the Shanling
only a  miniscule gain over the Cayin CD17. 
Now as for  best source  , phonograph is the ideal playback medium vs cds. 
I have some LP's now , but my main collection are classical cds, most not on LP version. Cables , I did note some gains employing silver/copper wiring throughout my entire system including inside the Defy.
Tweak worthy.
New Mundorf caps in all componets, tweak worthy. 
Yet the main central component remaisn the speakers.
Here is where  the entire audio resolution either rises to Nirvana or falls to <<distortion/muddy waters,/pollution/anti-fidelity  voicing  issues.
Your system's fidelity is ultimately dependent on what speaker  you have chosen to employ.
Forget all you've learned over the years, 
The new mantra is <,The speaker is key component>
All else is just extra tweaks/nuances. 
To sum up, a  ~~SHF~~ driver will match even the top of line Wilson weighing in at hundreds of lbs priced $$$$$$$ overa single FR driver. 
FR beats out any/all xover box design speakers. Mostly due to that key specification ~~db level~~~ which is everything in speaker design and thus in resolution/fidelity. 

mozartfan
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,195 posts
 
Box speakers? Heck no, I’ve listened to electrostatics for 40 years!
All is relative to the installation, vibration/resonance control and acoustic....

My box speakers ( 50 dollars used) sound better in my good room than my friend in principle "better" magnepan in a bad room ....
They are so good any upgrade is useless....Dont ask me the branded name ask me how is it possible? any relatively good speaker could deliver miraculous sound....Any.....

Anyway all qualities coming from any type of speakers is a balanced trade-off with ALWAYS positive and negative.... Especially for speakers under some money treshold....The room acoustic can help greatly to compensate some aspect of this trade off....My mechanical equaliser is PART of my speakers and PART of the room....Then for me speaking of speakers on  the shelf of the manufacturer for their design advantages is not the way to go through the essential .... They most work in a specific room to reveal their potential....

Like i said acoustic is the sleeping princess and everyone pay attention to only the 7 working dwarves....
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
@ larryi and @ phusis

Yes exactly, Trade offs is expected, 
But the tradeoffs employing the Thors is not worth the fine vocals, bass.
have to add gain to get results and this means stress and = music has a certain attack quality. There are nice things about the seas Thors , but next to any high sens FR, it isa  wet blanket speaker = dinasaur.

Although Ines at Vox and Richard both  hold the belief SET's are ideal amps for FR.
Here you can listen to a  PP with the 6.5 Diatone 95db, Vifa tweet 91db.
Its not bad at all, in fact quite nice, = could live  with this speaker and not go any further. But my quest takes  further. 
From the SET uploads on YT, there is not 1 that I can say <,WOW>> 
I am using the tweet section of the Thors for the Vifa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxdfV1TbTLA
herman
2,263 posts
 
@phusis 

yes, good eye, that is a Genelec HT3 sub. It is part of a home theater system completely separate from the 2 channel. I have a Trinnov processor running a 7.3.6 system. You  can see the L-R Paradigms sitting inside the bass horns too. You can't see the 10 foot screen that hinges down from the ceiling in front of the rack or the 4K Sony projector in the back of the room. I'll post that system one of these days

Genelec is highly recommended BTW
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
Seems like the Speaker shootout at the OK Corral i started wayyy back in 2001?  has not been settled. 
This topid is now 
Speaker Shootout Part 2. 
WE've all come alonggg way since then.
It was simply amazing how the single Diatone 6.5 driver blew away the Seas Thor, all due to one tiny characteristic specification. 
~~Sensitivity~~.
This to me is  critical , all important ingredient when conisderinga  speaker, Test/charts, I am not the least bit interested. 
The Diatone/Vifa might have peaks and valleys, all over the chart, off axis, etc. 
I am not even the least interested. 
If speaker A sounds superior to speaker B, thats all that counts,  But then we must consider the listener's ears, =  what exactly is he looking for.
as Mentioned by  larryi above. 
It all comes down to ,,well yes and no, If any audiophile can honestly say the Thors sound superior to the Diatone 6.5, I question his ability to hear, or he may need a  hearing aid,
Juts seems to me, the new developments in single point source/FR drivers over the past 10 years, has resulted in significant gains in high fidelity resolution.
This is the  purpose to this topic. To shed light on the new FR technology as the true champion, the king of all speaker designs. 2nd to none. 
Now we need to explore what amplification is allowed to be matched to these new single source drivers. 
ZSeems the SET amplification has been officially  coveted  as the only amplification for the task.
But there are draw backs with the SETs. They do not produce music likea  PP can in certain complex, hard driven signals.
They can get overwhelmed witha  single 845 trying to master all the complexities thrown its way.
PP has the muscle to channel all that high voltage music. 



audition__audio
1,522 posts
 
If I were to go the FR route, which I doubt I ever will, I would use OTL amps. 
More to discover