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You pay for it and you get it...

When it comes to large speakers, IME what you get far more than any other attribute, is the sense of scale...which is what seems to delineate the best large speakers from the best small speakers. As an example, yesterday I had the pleasure of listening to the new Wilson Sabrina X’s and the new Wilson Alexx V’s. While both speakers are from the same manufacturer, and both employ what looks like some of the same drivers, this is basically where the similarity ends. The big Wilson is about seven times the price of the small model! So, besides a much larger cabinet and a few extra drivers what do you get for your money...the answer is SCALE!! This is something that unless heard, is a little hard to fathom. The small Sabrina X’s do most things well..and I was very impressed by them, far superior across the board to the original model Sabrina. The Alexx V’s in a very large room ( which is also a MAJOR requirement for them to work their magic, and if one does not have this I believe then this is the wrong speaker for you) are able to throw a sense of scale that has to be heard to be believed. This is what you pay for with these large speakers, and in the Alexx V’s case, what you get. The frequency response of the larger model is not that different in the highs..and in some extent I think the midrange resolution was similar, but the bass is where it’s at...and this is where I think the sense of scale and enormity comes from. On paper, the smaller model can drop down to within probably ten Hz’s of the larger model, yet in a room of commensurate size, the little Sabrina X’s will never be able to portray the scale of the Alexx V’s. This aspect seems to apply to all large speakers in large room vs small/middle size speakers in large rooms.
Question is is it even possible to get scale with a smaller speaker in any size room, so far I have not heard this...anyone else?
128x128daveyf
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Actually DaveyF, both Wilsons are point source speakers. While the Alexx's undoubtedly have better bass their radiation pattern is otherwise identical. If I were to blind you and expose you to both speakers you may be able to pick out the Alexx due to better bass and performance otherwise but I do not think you would be able to distinguish them by "scale" which I take to mean the size of the image. As Compared to large line source speakers all Wilson's are small scale loudspeakers. It is unfortunate that there are not more full range line source speakers out there as I think if more people could audition them they would undoubtedly be more popular even considering their size. 
Everyone has to understand that our central nervous systems are excellent at fooling us. If it looks bigger it is going to sound bigger. I always try to blind myself in doing these sort of comparisons.
dletch2
455 posts
 
@mijostyn, I was going to say it, but I figure I already take enough abuse from people who have blind faith in their lack of bias.  When it hits your ear, you have SPL at a given frequency (and arriving from different angles). No more, no less. You don't know if it came from a small speaker or a large speaker unless you are looking at the speaker. With any of the speakers being discussed, the listening distances in reasonable sized rooms are enough for driver integration. 


There are room effects as @daveyf notes. Large rooms can have reflections far enough apart to be differentiated, but that is not necessarily a good thing. The scale should be in the recording, not artificial from the room.
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,896 posts
 
@mijostyn  Actually the size of the image is NOT what I am referring to as 'scale'. This is where it becomes difficult to describe what 'scale' is. The size of the image has nothing to do with 'scale'...and yet the imaging of the instruments on the stage can be bigger...or smaller ( depending on the instrument being portrayed). Scale is something that I am beginning to understand is misunderstood by a lot of folks who have never heard it...and is totally understood by those that have. Once you hear it, you know immediately what it is. 
My system can portray exacting imaging with excellent depth portrayal and precision of instruments on the stage, BUT it cannot portray scale. 
I am pretty sure that the little Sabrina X's cannot portray scale if they are placed into exactly the same room and with the same gear as the Alexx V's. 
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,896 posts
 
@dietch2 I’m fairly certain that scale has nothing to do with the recording. (Unfortunately!) I know this as we heard exactly the same recording in the different systems that I discussed above, The Alexx V’s portrayed scale, the Sabrina X’s...did not.
dletch2
455 posts
 
The scale should be in the recording, not artificial from the room.


I was too brief. I meant you should be recreating the scale inherent in the recording, not creating a false one.


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