I'm here for the sharing, not the snobery

I'm a newbie but I really like and respect that first post. 

+1 OP

I’m in an argumentative field, and it’s very tricky to have discussions where someone wants to argue for something (prove their point) while also remaining civil. As we've seen in the wider world, without trust no fact can stand and no argument can win. Trust and care for others' dignity is the one indispensable ingredient to constructive dialogue. 

Debates and arguments remain civil in my field when people remain intellectually and emotionally open to the idea that they’re wrong, they missed something, or there’s an entirely other way to frame or approach the question.

It also helps to be as explicit as possible about what the goal sought is; that way, people are not arguing at cross purposes (i.e., for different goals).

(I don’t really understand @oldhvy’s post about not needing to "prove" things. Anyone who gives or asks for reasons is engaged in proof. His issue, I suspect has to do with people aggressively or relentlessly insisting that they’re right. Which is different.)

I think one thing that's important to get a handle on when discussing with others is objective vs. subjective. We need to give more people latitude when they make a subjective statement, as personal taste and value systems can't be argued.

"I like amps with meters" - Can't be argued.

"Amps with meters improve the sound because of the way they slow the photons as they cross the NP junction in the transistors" - well, that is completely arguable!!

We also need to understand the difference between measurement and science.  Science advances and discovers new connections. Scientists create new models to explain experience. Measurements and technicians do not.  They repeat old methods to put a dot on a chart. Don't confuse measurement with experience, or cause and experience.  Those two are rarely tied well enough together in our field, with certain actual scientists and organizations rare exceptions.

Isn't "objective vs. subjective" (in the sense of 'measurable' vs. 'experienced') a false dichotomy?   There certainly are (objective) ways to test or measure subjective experience.   The simplest would be ABX testing, which I would think those who argue in favor of particular subjective differences ('A sounds better to me than B' or 'I can distinguish A from B even though your testing equipment cannot') would welcome.   The results of such tests would be completely 'objective'. (One might dispute their validity, of course; but if a 'subjectivist' [it's a bad word, but I think here everyone knows what it means] were to claim that no test of their experience is valid, then they wouldn't really belong on a board that devotes 99% of its discussion to material 'things' like amplifiers, cables, electric current etc.)

Hey @Jdane,

The false dichotomy you describe is clearly not what I discussed in my post which is more about how we discuss and treat various points of view in this forum.

Best,

E