2. amps-preamps
  3. 166907-24

Watt Gives?

Why does 75 Belles Watts smoke 250 watts from Anthem, PS Audio and W4S?

Not only do the Belles 75 watts play equally as loud, but it has the best bass texture, grip and slam, openess and top end...

Is this a case of 160hp on a 400lb motorcycle surpassing a 600 horsepower 4500lb in terms of acceleration?

I’d like to go up the ladder but I guess up isn’t always directly related to specs?

Really starting to question analogue / high efficiency, low powered beastly tubes...


128x128b_limo
timlub
2,042 posts
 
I have owned a Belles Aria, it is a very well designed amplifier. It does have solid bass, smooth, detailed midrange and good extended top end. 
The amp design is one of Dave Belles's better.  What I believe that you are mistaking for volume is Dynamics,  the 75 watt per channel Aria punches way above its weight and does sound more powerful than most because of how dynamic it is.  
timlub
2,042 posts
 
@speakermaster   I have owned maybe 25 amplifiers manufactured between 1976 and 2000.  While I will say that amplifier design has not significantly improved since then,  the quality of parts has,  outputs transistors, capacitors etc.  I find that while there are some awesome classic amplifiers out there,  A good amp designer today has the advantage of lower distortion, better quality parts than was available in the vintage gear that you continually rave about.  
arcticdeth's avatar
arcticdeth
1,572 posts
 
Same here. Own the Emotiva xpa-1 1000W monoblocs.
They get smoked by the odyssey kismet amps at 200 W. I use the amps at 4-Ohms for my modded CV D-9 speakers.
The small watt Kismets at maybe 360-375 W at 4 Ohms sound better, smoother, tighter compared to the 1000W emo monos.
Been told better parts, etc. totally believe it!!

They are deeper bass, crunchier mid ranges, highs are not irritating as the emo monos.

Better parts and the sound is more relaxing and accurate.
Is it parts? Or a combo of parts and quality which leads to better sound. ??



im not bashing the emo stuff, the odyssey just has a more relaxed tone, and lets me listen longer. 
    The emo stuff is saved as backup amps. 

ctwith3's avatar
ctwith3
71 posts
 
@timlub “I have owned maybe 25 amplifiers manufactured between 1976 and 2000.”
/
That’s better than 1 per year; what did you start with, and what do you have now?
I heard a superb Belles Virtuoso amp at Audio Connection, and followed up by buying one from Johnn R. Great guy. It’s going to be a few weeks until I get it, and I am really looking forward to replacing the Rotel power amp I’ve had for 20 years now. I’m never going to catch up with you!
timlub
2,042 posts
 
@ctwith3    Those amplifiers were owned across the years, even now.  I just rebuilt a Sumo Polaris and a GAS Grandson,  both with very high quality parts and they both responded very well.  I'm surprised how good these old amps sound.  But I've had 3 different Sumo's, a couple of Gas, an old Coda, Classe, Parasound, Kenwood Mono's, Kenwood stereo, an Edge, Yaqin, YBA, Heathkit (still have AA1600), 2 - PS Audio (200c & Delta), a Hafler DH-500, Kinergetics, a Marcof, an old Arcam.... right now that's what I remember.  
Actually,  these were mostly all decent sounding products. The Kenwood mono's were L07m's.  I enjoyed those, but afterward, I bought a Basic M1, I did not like that, also had a Parasound, don't remember the model, employee purchased it in 1980, didn't love it.   Again,  these are all pre 2000 models.  
I'd love to hear the Virtuouso.  I had an Aria integrated a couple of years ago, it was a huge value and very nice sounding piece.  I just built several Class D amps and am rotating 2 of those in and out of the system with the Sumo and Grandson.  I am currently using a SST Ambrosia preamp that I really like.    Not sure this answers your questions,  but there you go. 
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