Old Amps that can still Kick Butt


Not being a believer that time necessarily = progress, I would like to offer the following example of a sonic gem that has transcended time and can totally kick butt in a modern milieu:

The Robertson 4010. I got one of these about two years ago because it was in immaculate condition, the price was so low and I was inquisitive. I hooked it up and let it warm up for a couple of days. OMG this thing was in the super amp league: Transparency to die for, slam that you couldn‘t‘ believe for for a 50W amp.. Peter Moncrieffe wasn‘t wrong in his review of this amp: this thing is in the Sterreophile Class A component category hands down. Even after all these years.

What amps have you encountered that have defied time and can still kick butt today?


128x128pesky_wabbit
One way of saying it:

The list is endless.
New in the amplifier world is no where near being better in all cases.

Circuit refinements are rare, and the effect on sonic end points that the given amplifier circuitry that is new can deliver -- is highly debatable at best. One can point their finger at multiple (probably hundreds) designs that are touted as new, but are really just refinements of an old circuit design that has been around in the given company for 20 plus years. Where they dole it out by the inch as that is all that can be done to make manufacturing work. Where not all sages and mages in audio work with the same intelligence or speed of mind (and results) and such. Where they can, even if the individual is faster and better than the next, they can only work within the market in the way that the market (buyers) themselves - evolve and grow.

Refining or intelligently rebuilding and re-executing an old design (old amplifier) is most times a better path financial outlay and speed of motion toward the peaks-- than buying a new item. It’s not about spending more but spending intelligently.

It is called the last step in audiophile evolution. Where the searcher and the goal begin to become as one. Which is why it can take so long for some to inch their way toward it. Most never get there. I’m the opposite (happened over time), I’ve gone so far as to be taking $10-20k items apart into a big pile of parts within one day of owning them. So I’ve learned to not buy new in the search for audio nirvana. Too costly, by far. I’ve learned to simply buy frameworks and starting points.

This thing where the modketeer or highly talented technician or ’frustrated designer’ is the best person on the planet to know, if one is looking for audio nirvana. Finding one of those is like finding water in an endless desert. Since it is so rare (finding the right one), few people know a real one when they meet them.

Although many an audio company owner and designer is exactly that, but all with different levels of talent and experience, where they are mostly forced to abandon that path (if they started with it), for the path of development of product for retail sale and that associated world of enforced direction, design, and rigidity...

It’s the edge of the whisper of the Buddhist heights of audio listening evolution that you are catching a glimpse of. You’re just touching the edges of it.

But this is a limited hangout, in pretty well all ways possible, even though it is the actual end point. It’s the nature of how things work. All the new (minimum sales levels required) turning into used (so peaks can be reached) is the only way this can happen. The masses must exist so the search for perfection has lands to walk though and experiences to shape it -- on in it’s meandering path.
Circuit refinements are rare, and the effect on sonic end points that the given amplifier circuitry that is new can deliver -- is highly debatable at best.
This statement is incorrect.

The thing that's been plaguing amplifier design for the last 60-70 years is distortion caused by feedback- due to limitations in circuit design that limits how much feedback can be applied. There are things that have happened in the last 20-25 years that have dealt that problem a serious blow! Insufficient feedback is why amps get harsh when you crank up the volume. This problem is literally why tube amps are still being made.
I have an old Adcom 535L that still does a decent job. It's a mid-fi amp for sure and doesn't kick butt out of it's class, but I got it in 1993 and it still works well and really brings speakers to life. Used, it's worth maybe $200, tops, and there's no reason to part with it. (And 
Has the OP ever had anything but older, vintage gear in his rig? What is the context of the comment in regard to performance? What amps have been directly compared to arrive at such a proud conclusion? Just curious!  :) 


This certainly has not been my experience. Starting in about 1980 when I took out my first loan to buy the then new revolutionary Pass designed Threshold 500. Then 20 years later after auditioning many amps and bought a Pass x350, which in every respect bested the Threshold (jaw droppingly so), and the switching over to an Audio Research Reference 160s. In each case the previous generation definitely could not kick butt in comparison to the new one... each generation has had much higher current... the butt kicking part). There would never be going back and a bit of nostalgia. Each generation has absolutely trounced the previous. Also, I think accounting for the time value of money, the investment I made in each amp was probably roughly the same.

.

If the is a place you could feel an amp held up over time would be in a tube amp, where there was a certain sweetness (not accuracy) that was particularly appealing. Or if you are not actually appreciating better more accurate performance. Over the last fifty years solid state more closely approached the positive attributes of tube gear and tube gear more closely approached the position attributes of solid state gear, converging on best possible sound... as refinements in material science and component construction and selection will continue. I suppose the state of the art will level out at some point, but it sure has not yet.

.

I guess it is great that some people feel this way. This is how I got the same price in trade in as I paid for my Pass x350 16 years earlier. I got a ridiculous amount of money back for my Threshold as well, on a sound / dollar basis.