Which subwoofer?


I have a small room (10’x14’) and am wondering if a subwoofer would help. If so, which one?

I have Martin Logan electrostatic speakers with  8” powered 200 watt woofers and 8” passive radiators.  The bass is articulate, but not very deep. I am wondering if I could get more bass volume and depth without loosing detail with an additional subwoofer?
I have tried an 8” Velodyne, but could never integrate it with the Martin Logans so I sold it. 

The Martin Logans are powered by a 200 watt McIntosh receiver. 
Any thoughts?


kenrus
@lewinskih01;By jove, I think you have it! 18" woofers have gained favour amongst OB enthusiasts because of their higher max-SPL characteristics in comparison to smaller woofers (and 15" for the same reason). Open baffle woofer design results in lower output relative to sealed and ported---using the same basic woofer (the woofer in the OB Sub is the same as that used in the F12, only electrically optimized for OB usage.), a characteristic cited against them by opponents of OB subs.

That criticism is justified and fair, but there is a solution, one employed by both Rythmik’s Brian Ding in the OB/Dipole Sub, and by Siegfried Linkwitz in his excellent OB/dipole loudspeakers: a dipole cancellation compensation circuit, which provides electronic boosting of the signal sent the woofer(s) at 6dB/octave below 100Hz. Problem solved! Or at least mitigated: even with that circuit, an OB does not produce as much output as a sealed or ported, fed the same amount of amplifier power. You can’t have it all! To get a slight increase in SPL, the 3-woofer OB Sub is offered. And one can of course stack multiple OB subs, using a separate plate amp for each OB Sub H-frame and it’s woofers.

Speaking of subs with 18" woofers: did you notice Rythmik now offers 18" sealed and ported models? Wow! The 15" models already produce a lot of max SPL, I can’t imagine the 18". And with servo-feedback!

Does your friend with the F8’s realize he owns collector items? Brian Ding discontinued the model (and no longer has the 8" woofer manufactured for him), which was popular for mid-bass use. A lot of audiophiles think smaller woofer = "faster" bass, but Ding insists his 12", 15", and 18" woofers are just as fast as the 8". What makes a sub sound "fast" is how quickly the driver stops and returns to "rest" after the signal stops; the Rythmik servo-feedback design provides stop-on-a-dime woofer control and sound quality.

As for OB sub-to-sidewall distance: Rejoice! Due to dipole cancellation on either side of the OB Sub frame (inherent in open baffle design, as described and explained in my earlier post), you may place the OB Sub right against the wall if you wish. Or lay it on the floor---there is no output on either side of the OB frame! As long as the sub fires down the length of the room, you’re good.

As for OB Sub to front wall (behind the Sub, not the listening position) distance: as with all dipoles, a minimum of 3’ is required, more encouraged. Of course, you may try different distances to optimize direct-to-reflected phase correlation and loudspeaker/sub blending, but the continuously-variable phase control (0-180 degrees phase rotation, creating 0-to-16ms delay) makes that unnecessary. But remember: a phase control can only delay the signal, not send it back in time. ;-)
Hello kenrus,

   




     I think mike_in_nc gave you very good advice: the key is good integration with your main speakers, a pair of subs will perform much better than a single sub (smoother, faster bass, easier to integrate and provide better bass dynamics) and it's best to buy subs that offer a free in-home trial period and full refunds if you're not satisfied. I agree with this completely.
     I also agree with mattchristian that a pair of the SVS SB-1000 sealed subs are a very good choice.  You'd need to buy a pair of these subs used, however, since SVS recently discontinued this model.  I don't know your budget and goals, but if you're looking for the best bargain, I think a used pair of the older SB-1000 subs in good condition would be your best option.           
     If you prefer to buy new with a 5 yr warranty, I'd suggest checking out a pair of the SVS SB-1000 Pro subs for $499/each, or a $50 discount if you buy 2, at $950/pair. These are a newer refreshed and updated version of the discontinued SB-1000 model at the same price.  These are also very compact (roughly a 13" cube), have a 12" woofer and have a rated bass extension down to the audible limit of 20 Hz. They offer free shipping, a free 45 day in-home trial period and a full refund if you're not completely satisfied.
     If your budget is a bit higher and your goal is state of the art bass performance that will make your room seem larger, I'd suggest you consider the Audio Kinesis Swarm or Debra 4-sub distributed bass array (DBA) system for about $3,000:
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system
     Just a few useful things for sub installation and setup I've learned through research and experience over the years:

Two subs will perform and sound about twice as good as a single sub  and four subs will perform and sound about twice as good as two subs in virtually any room.

Humans are unable to localize (discern exactly where a sound is coming from)  with bass sounds at frequencies below about 80 Hz and are progressively better at localizing sounds as their frequencies rise above about 80 Hz.

It's very important that each sub is positioned optimally in the room, and in relation to the designated listening position, for best performance. I suggest you google and use the "sub crawl" method for easiest and optimal positioning.  

Once the subs are optimally positioned in the room, the Volume, Crossover Frequency and Phase controls need to be optimally set on each of the SVS subs or once for all 4 subs, on the supplied amp/control unit, for the Audio Kinesis DBA system.

Best wishes,
Tim
I use two HSU ULS-15 MkII subs in addition to a Revel Ultima Sub 15 all are sealed.
The  ULS15 is the only sealed sub that HSU sells and is very nice for the money.

We`re in the process of setting up two brand new SVS SB1000 Pro`s that are being used along with a sealed down firing DIY Rythmik sub that has the GR 12" driver in it for my daughter and her husband in a nicely done basement stereo room.

Plenty of power and the phone app is really nice to have ! Just sit in the listening spot and dial it all in...pretty cool
You guys have been amazing with your ideas and advice. Thank you!

I’ve been laid low because of medical problems. Once things improve (soon) I certainly have a lot to consider!

Thank you, again!
I’ve been aware of the great benefits of the DBA swarm through many post here on the ‘Gon. Technically GR’s OB servo design make a ton of sense to mate up to my Quad 63 USA monitors.

has anyone seen a post of a design that specifically mates with that speaker? Should I OB everything? Or would I be better to mix OB in the front, and ported / sealed in the sides or back?