A full range speaker?

@oldhvymec

Of course you are mostly right, but why be so confrontational? People don’t listen when you do that, and if you have info people should know, you frustrate them and yourself by not conveying it in a pleasant manner.

I can hear 16hz. My subs can’t play that frequency in a musical context, but they can make that tone as a singular function. Great speakers are made to reproduce sound as recorded and experienced, so they are reproduction devices; and designers that care expect their clients to care as well, so assume those who purchase their product will attempt to provide an environment conducive to them functioning properly. Let us assume that each of us is making their best effort to do that.

I'm retired, so limit my spending cause I hope it's a long ways till I'm dead, and so may need a spare $20k here and there for those unforeseen emergencies that happen to old people who's parents were so thoughtless as to have not made themselves wealthy so I could have money to burn. I envy those who's parents were.

Budget wise I can have a $50k system or a $50k room to listen to it, but not both, so I, like all of us, have to determine my best options, and build my system according to a plan. I think we should all be reasonable and assume we are all like minded in that, and be courteous to one and other in that regard; there is something like that in the forum guidelines.

Several people have mentioned how few notes actually are played in a piece of music below 32hz, and as someone who listens to just about everything, I would have to agree with them that is a good standard to be considered full range.  But a Klipsh Heresy only goes down to about 48hz, but does so brilliantly as the woofer goes up to 400hz, that gives it good dynamic range balance, and is that speakers best attribute. (Please, no corrections, those figures are approx off the top of my head, and those are not the point I'm making about that speaker.)

So, that being said, what is your opinion on what defines a full range speaker, hz wise? What is the limit at which you would say, "That's required for my average listening needs, and after that I will need a sub?

@daledeee1

An excellent response!

Exactly on point to the question I thought I was asking. Something I can enter into a spread sheet.

@ivan_nosnibor

I agree that a balance should be struck between the room and the system. Most people don’t leave enough room in their budget for the room adjustments.

But those can be had in various manners, some even spouse friendly. Bookshelves with books in them are as effective as a custom made sound diffusion panel that applies to a wall. Same with fiber arts, which when you think about it makes more sense since those can be an investment; oriental rugs, tapestries and whatnot.

What I wonder about is why people will buy $1,000 worth of sound treatment items, but not use the same thing the Met uses; heavy velvet drapes. Put those over your windows and you are a long way towards the finishing line. Cover your back wall with them and eliminate almost all standing waves. Heck, even lined linen will do a remarkably good job. I use all three, and it makes my wife happy and it fixes my room. 
But I would like to see an irregular sheet size panel for ceilings produced at no more than 4-6” tall that tastefully could be applied to the entire ceiling as an architectural enhancement, and give me the feeling of a 16’ ceiling. 
Enough digression.

Here we go, a ceiling diffusion manufacturer:

https://www.oeler.com/wood-ceiling-panels/

A couple things about room treatments in general: it may look at first like it’s just a matter of picking out what you might think you might need from a vast forest of treatment products that are out there, pro or DIY. The one big problem with any of that is that it will in fact work to some extent. That is, whatever you pick out will work, but how much and at what frequencies? It’s great to say that we can absorb or diffuse by so much at X frequencies. But how do even know where the problem spots in the room actually are to begin with? Are we reducing the right frequencies at the right room locations? Are we in fact making things better or making things worse? We can’t know what to treat and what to leave alone if we haven’t yet done our homework and have visually mapped out where the problem areas in our room actually are...until we do that, then we’re just guessing...the odds certainly don’t favor guesswork simply because the behavior of the world of acoustics typically does not follow ’common sense’ logic...our best guesses are more likely to turn out to be wrong than right. There’s always experimenting, which is good, but measuring the room first is even better. But this can’t be done in a single sitting, it takes Many different readings. It’s tricky, and in the pro arena, when it’s time for that they call in the other pro’s: the acousticians. In the hifi world, that gets pricey, worth it maybe, but still pricey.

But, of all the things you mention above, the drapes idea seem to be maybe your best shot at your biggest bang for the buck here. I mean those very heavy sound-deadening curtains they use in studios, with a thinner outer covering to keep the wife happy. None of the you mention will really do anything to offer much control below 200 Hz, but above, those curtains would be good. But the best part is that you can control how much wall coverage and you can experiment easily by sliding them open or closed...a great way to experiment for yourself. Rugs on the floor if you don’t already have them.

AFA the ceiling is concerned, I’m not sure anything would be effective for the bass. Foam would help only so much in the mids and the highs, but the reason the mids and highs sound so compromised to start with is because of the bass. Too much folded bass energy in the small room creates not only a problem with the fundamental bass note, but also on all the harmonics of that note, as you go up in frequency (and down in amplitude). So you can put foam, fiberglass or curtains down to control the harmonics everywhere, but they are just band-aids. The real trick would be to try to gain room size and volume to keep the bass from bombarding the mids and highs into oblivion. Once the mids and highs are contaminated (mixed in with the harmonics), you can’t absorb your way out of the problem without reducing the good sound along with the bad...so, if you must do it that way, then reducing things by a judicious amount, and no more, is the about only hope there is of applying an optimal treatment, a limited compromise...but it does also help keeps costs sane, since any additional treatment after that point would only make things sound worse.