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Subwoofer Decisions - REL/Rythmik, Pair/Single, Paper/Aluminum Driver, etc.

I have decided to upgrade my subwoofers. I have a 15x12 room with an open side wall that I use for 2 channel and HT. Two channel music performance is the priority. We don’t listen to either very loud or need the room to shake. I am considering the REL S/510 and the Rythmik F12, F12G, FM8, L22 and E22. I have an all Linn vintage system. My speakers are Aktiv by installing special crossover cards in the 5 channel Class V amp. It outputs to the speakers in a bi-wire configuration. If I used a high level speaker connection I guess I would have to tie into the speaker wires connected to the Bass/Mid card.

Any thoughts on Rythmik v REL? You seem to get a lot more for your money with Rythmik and they also offer more options - finish, sizes, configurations, etc. Supporting a Texas based business is also nice. Do they offer equal or better quality and performance? There seem to be many fans that think so.

Any thoughts on Rythmik’s paper v aluminum drivers? The owner says that the aluminum driver retains its shape faster and is more detailed. He recommended the aluminum in my system over the paper even for 2 channel. The paper is lighter and has better extension above 80Hz. I’ve also heard that it is better at low volumes because it easier to move. My current subs have paper drivers and paper seems to be greatly preferred in the audiophile community.

Any thoughts on pair v single sub in my size room? One 10 or 12 is probably enough to pressurize the room but will a pair of dual 8 or 12’s make everything easier and better? Is there a point where they will overwhelm the room?

Things are pretty tight in my room so the smaller footprint of the vertically stacked FM8 and L22/E22 are appealing. Also stacked drivers look badass right? The FM8 with its dual 8 inch drivers will probably be faster than the larger 10 and 12 models. It also appears to go plenty low enough to keep up for basic HT needs. The L22/E22 have a smaller footprint than the single driver F12 but I’m concerned that those might be overkill.

High level speaker connection? REL recommends it. Rythmik offers it but recommends using other methods. Anyone know if using it with a Class V amp and tying it only to the bass/mid speaker output will perform well? I’m not sure how REL implements its filters to make this work. Is the high level connection really better in performance?

Thanks for the help.
snatex
musicaddict
382 posts
 
Golfnutz, I forgot to respond to your excellent comments on plopping and ‘hearing’ one’s way to good bass.

As regards plopping, based on the DBA concept one merely needs good asymmetrical positioning around the room. Of course more adjusting could be done, ad infinitum I suspect. Sometimes you do your best and call it a day. I’m already happier without going wild on positioning, yet…

And my ears did not adjust the bass levels. I wanted the flattest, lowest bass possible with no humps or exaggerations so I ran lots of frequency sweeps down to 20Hz in 1/3 octaves and dialed it all in without my ear. That gave me a pretty flat bass down past 31Hz.

The true ‘proof is in the pudding’ moment was when I played the first track (Signe) off of Eric Clapton’s “Unplugged” album with the three sub-woofers dialed in. For the first time I noticed the air pumping or chuffing coming from something on-stage just past the two minute mark. I was amazed as it was so soft and so low in tone I barely picked it up. Now I know it is there. An ‘ah hah’ moment.


golfnutz
231 posts
 
Thanks for the response musicaddict.

I have nothing against DBA, it’s just how some guys install multiple subs in their room with absolutely no thought, then make comments on Audiogon about how amazing everything sounds, including better mids and highs. So many OMG moments, but without any proof that what they’re hearing could actually be better - way better. At least measurements are a way to back the claims up. Basically, it’s better because I said it was (I just turned the volume so you could barely hear the bass) - OK, good for you then. Except, they’ll adjust the volume down on the subs again when a heavier bass song comes along. Again, no idea what bass frequencies they’ve just removed from anything they should be hearing just because they have a peak somewhere and don’t know it.
Also, what if someone could actually get a very good looking frequency response curve from say 150Hz down to 20Hz with a couple of subs. Let’s assume within plus/minus 7dB across that frequency range. Is it really worth the cost of adding 1 or even 2 more subs just because someone says the more the better ? And what if adding more subs actually makes the curve look worse, or only corrects it to within 5dB?
We have the tools to help with evaluating what’s going on, there’s no guessing or throwing darts at anything. Yes, it might take some extra work to go through many test scenarios, but at least we’re informed along the way - no false claims.

BTW - none of my comments are directed at you, or anyone else in particular.

tubebuffer
417 posts
 
Subwoofer is like woman. It good to have 4 or 5.
bjesien
1,408 posts
 
Yes TB!
I've owned subs from Rel- the Stadium III and S/3, Rythmik F12G and SVS SB3000. I had the Rythmik and SVS together and think the Rythmik is the better but couldn't identify one over the other consistently in a blind test. The nice feature with he SVS is being able to control all the settings with an app. It allows me to play around with the volume and frequency during certain songs or movies. Adds a fun factor, one of the reasons I enjoy audio. The grill on the SVS is a horror show, looks like Darth Vaders helmet. 

   
hilde45's avatar
hilde45
5,443 posts
 
I have three subs in a room with a ceiling that is 6'5" high. It's a very difficult room. What allowed me to manage the bass with the Rythmik's adjustable phase. The left Rythmik is set at 270; the right Rythmik is set at 30. The REL is further away and set at 0. I could never accomplish what I did without the adjustable phase. Take a look at my system, the first picture and see what it's made possible. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9064
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