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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Thanks @dover .....

Having been settled with the selection of cartridges surrounding my Raven AC-2 for about a year, I have been messing back and forwards searching for the best two MM Cartridges for my Victor TT-101. 

Do I go with one of the Signets?
One of the ATs?
One of the Shures?
One of the Victors?
One of the Empires?
One of the Fidelity Researches?
One of the Graces?
Perhaps the Glanz MFG 610LX?

After a year of testing combinations...I think I've settled on the Victor X-1 and the Signet MR-5.0LC (this will not please Frogman 🥴)

Both these cartridges are very difficult to find with original styli in good condition and the X-1 is virtually 'unobtainium' 😥
I managed to get the only one I've seen advertised in five years with not only its original stylus intact....but also a spare NOS unused one 🎉

Naturally they both come equipped with Beryllium Cantilevers ....

Turn this one UP and boogie....
With YouTube unfortunately....we lose the bottom two octaves 😢

VINTAGE VICTOR X-1 MM CARTRIDGE 

VINTAGE SIGNET MR-5.0LC MM CARTRIDGE

VINTAGE SIGNET MR-5.0LC MM CARTRIDGE

VINTAGE VICTOR X-1 MM CARTRIDGE 
frogman
7,409 posts
 
Nice music selections! One of my favorite Rock records from one of the all time best R&R bands that many have never heard of. Love the music of Astor Piazzola! Wonderful music. If you don’t have it, may I recommend “Zero Hour”; arguably, his greatest recording.

**** this will not please Frogman 🥴 ****

Not displeased at all! The Signet is a very fine cartridge and clearly one of the very best MM’s in your collection, based on what has been heard here. However, it’s all relative isn’t it? Compared to a great MC or Decca….…..or the Victor X1, to my ears there is just something not quite right with the top end which also affects the upper partials of the lower frequency spectrum. There is always an obvious high frequency ceiling that causes a kind of subtle dullness and sameness of instrumental colors. With few exceptions, I have heard something similar with most of the MM’s I have owned, or heard here.  Of course, the Signet and Victor are on different tonearms, but still…….. I have heard the same things to one degree or another regardless of arm. The Signet, however, seems to do a better job in the tracking department. Both carts had trouble with the Piazzola recording, but the Signet less so.

Overall, the Victor sounds much better balanced and without the hf ceiling. With the Signet, perhaps partially as a psychoacoustic result of the hf ceiling the midrange sounds a bit thick and the bass drummy and too corpulent and with inferior pitch definition compared to the Victor.

All relative. Fine sounds as always; and, once again, Princi got it right 😊.

Thanks for sharing, Halcro.





halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Like you Frogman, I love Little Feat...... but it's ironic that the best recording of their music happens to be their only 'live' album 😢
Their studio albums are so uniformly poorly recorded/mixed/mastered that whenever I force myself to play one.....I keep shaking my head incredulously wondering if the band members/managers ever actually LISTENED to their records!!!?
Absolutely devoid of bass and the lower heft essential for the  contagious transmission of the emotion contained in rock and R&B....surely their oeuvre is ripe for a complete all-analogue remix/mastering/pressing 🧐?

Agree with you about Zero Hour being Astor's best......first turned me on to him 30 years ago but I only have it on cassette.
Just ordered it from Discogs on vinyl 🤗...so thanks Frogman.

I was most interested to see what you and Dover might say about these two cartridges because listening to them 'live'.....I can't hear any differences 🙉
Even after your comments....I just can't hear any!
What does it say when two different manufacturers produce two different cartridges that sound identical (to the cloth-eared)?
And what's the point of me having both installed in my System?
I should install another cartridge which gives me a differing perspective....👂
Are cartridges just 'tone-controls'.....🤔

As always Frogman...thanks for taking the time.
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,714 posts
 
Yamamoto HS-4 Carbon Fibre headshell
@halcro Congrats on the new car. 
I have never liked carbon fiber. It sounds grey and lacking in detail. It's overdamped. I belive I have commented on this thread before on this subject. 
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Thanks @noromance 😃

Let's try something slightly different 🤗
I've readily admitted that I can't discern the differences between MCs and MMs (all things being equal)......
But I profess to hear the differences with a boron cantilever.....🤬

So we all hear differently depending on our brain/ear interfaces and genetic predispositions.

I think we've accepted that two golden-eared contributors here (Frogman and Dover) CAN discern between MCs and MMs......but they've had it too easy up to now with me REVEALING the cartridges a priori.....👐
Can they do it BLIND......? 🙈

And how many others (like Noromance, Edgewear, et al) can hear attributable sonic signatures...?

Now I thought I could be tricky by actually using two MMs or MCs, but that may be for another time...? 🤔

Apologies for the mic overloads on occasions. The human voice is powerful 🗣

Cartridge A 

Cartridge B 

Perhaps in the first instance (so that others are not swayed).....if Frogman and Dover could just say whether they find it 'easy' to tell or not.....with comments to follow in a few days?
That would be great guys.....

Anyone else....don't be shy. This could save people money 💰
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