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Acoustic treatment for windows and a piano

Hello all,

This is my first question after much lurking and a few thread replies. I appreciate everyone who contributes to this community - I’ve learned a lot from you. 

My listening room is 13.5’ wide and 16’ long. On the left side wall I have an upright piano (hard surfaces, reflective), with some acoustic tiles above the piano to dampen reflection. I have a big rug covering most of the hardwood floor, with a thick pad under it. The ceiling is typical bare drywall.  

On the right side wall I have two large glass windows, two separate window cases. I have typical wood Venetian blinds on each window section. 

My problem: Despite a lot of tweaking and positioning, my highs have amazing clarity but are still a bit harsh and fatiguing. I’m thinking I need to treat the windows, it’s likely I’m getting a lot of reflection off them and the hard wood blinds - but maybe the piano is a problem, too, or maybe I’ve reached the limits of my gear. 

Key system points: Rega RP8 TT with Hana SL; Tavish Vintage tube phono pre; Rega Elex-R integrated; Martin Logan Motion 40i speakers. I have good quality interconnects and speaker cable, and I have some sort of vibration control on every component. 

My questions:

1. Is the piano likely part of the problem? If so can I do anything with it? It’s a very nice piano that I play daily so it’s not going anywhere, and I really can’t rearrange the room due to layout. 

2. Are the windows likely part of the problem? If so, would you recommend drapes, acoustic blinds, or something else?

3. As I’ve improved my system, I’ve begun to suspect the amp is maxed out for sound quality. It feels like the speakers could give me a bit more with a better amp. Is it possible the harsh highs are from the amp alone? I’ve read the Elex-R amps can be lean in the highs, and that’s exactly what I’m experiencing. 

Thank you for any thoughts! 
phasemonger
rego
378 posts
 
Hello phasemonger, as you have identified the range (highs) you are in good shape for continuing to a solution.
One - the piano is helping with diffusion but could be a source for reinforcement of a resonance.
Try covering at least part of the piano with absorption on the least damped portion (top ... ???).
Two - the glass will resonate and flex dependent on area (other specific characteristics) over some range.
Glass has a different absorption coefficient than drywall.
My guess would be that the glass is not problematic especially with the blinds.
Envious of the piano here !
Try adding some absorption behind the blinds as an experiment (a towel).
Three - being unfamiliar with the list of gear this may be an area to look into.
The good news is that high frequency modes are easy to treat with absorption or diffusion.
A single four inch thick panel would go a long way toward nailing down problem highs.
A hybrid panel would work well.
Be aware that treatment in one range can effect the room ballance.
As for a balance a live end / dead end approach should be a snap.
Work axially side to side high to low (room height / placement).
Good luck ...
dekay's avatar
dekay
5,563 posts
 
Try laying a soft weighted pad on the keys of the piano.

Perhaps a folded blanket with some smaller books/paperbacks on top - as an experiment.

Doing so will slightly damp the workings of the piano (without the hassle of placing something inside).

DeKay
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,788 posts
 
As @dekay suggested, damping the piano strings (two per keyboard note---that's a lotta strings!) is the first order of business. They ring like crazy when provoked, much more than an acoustic guitar or drumset. A folded furniture moving blanket will work great.

Second should be replacing the Venetian blinds with either diffusion or absorption. Ideally, you want the left and right walls to be as alike as possible, so whatever you do to one side, do to the other. "Sweeten" the highs with Townshend Pods? Before acoustically treating the room?!
phasemonger OP
23 posts
 
Thanks for the great input! I didn’t even consider the idea of the strings ringing sympathetically… that makes a lot of sense. And I know the two sides of the room are acoustically very different, so that could be part of the issue, too. 
I have the amp on BDR cones thanks to MC, which did wonders for the sound (really!), so I think I’ll work on the piano and room a little then revisit the amp. 
erik_squires
16,057 posts
 
One thing to keep in mind is that you can often compensate for deficits in one side of the room by adding more to the other.

Of course, it's hard to get a good stereo image when your left and right are not balanced but if one side is too reflective and can't be fixed, such as with big bay windows you don't want to hide you can treat the opposite room with extra thick absorbers and diffusion.

And don't ever forget the ceiling.
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