Record Cleaning Machines

@willy-t,

Tima uses the Elmasonic P120H (with pump & 0.2 micron absolute filter) and he has added a Elmasonic S120H for rinsing and recently switched  to Tergitol 15-S-9 ( Tergitol 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 Surfactant | TALAS (talasonline.com)) with good results - read:  tima's DIY RCM | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet! (whatsbestforum.com).

FYI - Tergikleen does not foam because its a blend of Tergitol 15-S-9 which is water soluble and can foam and Tergitol 15-S-3 which is not water soluble and can act as a defoamer, but unless rinsed (as you do) can leave a residue.  The  Tergitol 15-S-3 exists only as a emulsion.   The origins of Tergikleen are from the composition specified in The Care and Handling of Recorded Sound Materials, By Gilles St-Laurent Music Division National Library of Canada January 1996.  Whether they still use it is unknown and the US Library of Congress does not use it - they use Tergitol 15-S-7 (which is not available to the public).  But, 15-S-7 is not good for a UT tanks because of the low cloud point; and contrary to the urban-myth 15-S-3 + 15-S-9 does not equal 15-S-7.  

@antinn, Thanx for your service!! I down loaded your book and will get started with it tonight. This took a lot of time and effort on your part for little if any financial gain, again thank you very much. To my knowledge there is no other comprehensive review of the subject by someone with technical expertise in this area. 

I'll get back with questions after I finish.  

It finally dawned on me why the handle "antinn" sounded familiar! When I re-read this thread, terry9's contribution suddenly helped turn the lights on! Thanks, terry9!

Antinn, first, my sincere thanks for your March 2021 second edition paper incorporating the subject we are discussing here. Very impressive, comprehensive and informative piece of work! Thank you!

I'm offering the following in the hopes I can get you to comment on my present labor of love. It's a little more detail about my present cleaning methodology. I'll try to keep it short and to the point.

I use an RoHS model 30A (6 liter) 180 watt US power, 200 watt heating power, 40 kHz US machine. I don't use heat. The tank fluid always stays around room temperature (e.g. 65 to 70 degrees Fahrenheit). I use CleanerVinyl adapters to rotate 3 LPs slowly (probably a little less than 3 RPM) in Mobile Fidelity Super Record Wash, advertised as an "alcohol-free" fluid incorporating "non-toxic, natural degreasers and dirt solvents in combination with quadruple-distilled, hyper-pure water base". They further state this fluid is a "high-surface-tension water composition". After US cleaning, my next step is rinsing the LPs, using a Knosti Disco Anti-Stat filled with distilled water. The Knosti is the German version of the Spin-Clean and uses brushes, instead of pads. Next, I lay the records on LP-sized high quality microfiber cloths for a pre-drying and, then, transfer them to the Knosti drying rack for complete air-drying. My final step involves treating them with LAST record preservative. Thus far, I've never seen grit, particles or accumulated dirt of any kind in the bottom of the US tank when I'm finished. I've also never seen anything like that in the filters I use (Melitta coffee filters) to drain the cleaning fluid back into their containers. I generally do 15 LPs at a time, which takes me around 3 hours from start to finish, including set-up, clean-up & tear down. I could probably reduce the time but I amuse myself in the interim periods.

As I indicated earlier, I'm getting what I consider great audio results. However, if the Degritter can achieve the same or better audio results, I would seriously consider it or, for that matter, any other reasonably priced cleaner or cleaning system. As another poster indicated, the HumminGuru caught my interest, as well, but this is still a work in progress and details are sketchy.

Thoughts?

I guess I am “old school”. Use the legendary Keith Monks Discovery RCM. BBC, Library of Congress, etc. used to be a thread on nozzle at the end of a tone arm like moving arm. Now just a high suction devise using a very strong German medical grade pump. It vacuums one grove at a time well removing all fluid and dirt. And the KM fluid produces the white substance when brushed in. And the whole process takes a bit over a minute a side.

@oldaudiophile,

1. If you read the book Chapter XIV.5.3, and you apply your tank volume of 6L with 3 records, the fastest you should spin is 1 rpm. If you clean just one record at a time, then 3 rpm is the fastest you should spin. The problem with spinning too fast is that it agitates the fluid and if the fluid is agitated at >50% of tank volume/min, for lower frequency UCM such as 40 kHz, the cavitation intensity decreases and 3 records at 3 rpm in a 6L tank, the cavitation intensity could be 50% less. Note that if the spinner motor is 12/24VDC, you can buy a variable speed power supply such as these which should get the speed down to 1 rpm Amazon.com: SHNITPWR 60W Universal Power Supply DC 3V 4V 4.5V 5V 6V 7V 7.5V 8V 9V 10V 11V 12V Adjustable Variable Power Adapter 100V-240V AC to DC Converter 1A 2A 2.5A 3A 4A 5A with 14 Tips & Polarity Converter : Electronics or Amazon.com: SHNITPWR 3V ~ 24V 3A 72W Power Supply Adjustable DC 3V 5V 6V 9V 12V 15V 16V 18V 19V 20V 24V Variable Universal AC/DC Adapter 100V-240V AC to DC Converter with 14 Tips 5.5x2.5mm 4.0x1.7mm 3.5x1.35mm : Electronics

2. Mobile Fidelity Super Record Wash has no detailed MSDS so I cannot make any assessment - other than if its working and your happy with the results - if its not broke, don’t fix it. Otherwise, stating that the fluid is a "high-surface-tension water composition" has to be a typo. It should state "low-surface-tension water composition". A "high-surface-tension water composition" would not wet the record and overall be a poor water-based detergent.

3. Rinsing is important to reduce the risk of cleaner residue; and not knowing the constituents/concentration of the Mobile Fidelity Super Record Wash rinsing is prudent and using the Knosti Disco Anti-Stat filled with distilled water is a good process.

4. So long as the microfiber cloths are clean and lint-free, there should be limited risk. Knowing for sure they are lint-free is another story. Unless you are using a UV light as I address in Chapter II and IV, you may not know for sure. I made a dumb mistake by using a cotton towel to dry my gloved hands and when I inspected a ’clean’ record it was full of lint (under UV light). There was enough transfer from the cloth to my gloves (the cloths never touched the record) to contaminate the record - good-bye cotton cloths at any step.

5. The fact that you ’never’ see grit, particles or accumulated dirt of any kind..." in my world is a red-flag. If the cleaning process is truly efficient, you should on occasion see something. The fact that you see nothing - either your records are all exceptionally clean to begin with or your cleaning process has some weakness. As I address above, you may want to try cleaning just one record at a time and see if that changes the equation as they say.

Good luck,
Neil