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Jazz And Speaker Placement

Inspired by the purchase of a new pair of speaker stands (custom made for my LS50s, whatever good that does), I just went through a painful reevaluatIon of my system’s speaker placement. A lot of reading—particularly into the SBIR phenomenon, along with KEF’s own literature—and even more experimentation. Two guidelines: No rules and no big money on footers.

The last time I tried this, I wound up with the speakers on spikes, 4” from the speaker wall, with socks stuffed into the ports. (Some members of this forum may not have heard: I’ve done away with the terms “front” and “back” walls, along with the confusion and explanations that always accompany then, in favor of the terms speaker wall and listener wall. Please use these terms going forward.)


The first person to hear this setup asked, “Where’s the bass?” He was right. The sound had been tightened within an inch of it’s life. Bass and drums were staccato, with plenty of black space audible. But that’s not the way bass sounds, nor a kick drum. They are soft instruments, with lots of attack and decay. They are not “transients,” at least not in the way that I understand that word. (To me, “transient” has about the same descriptive power as ‘postmodern.”)

This was “audiophile bass,” to borrow Paul McGowan’s phrase, and it had to go. The socks had been long gone by the time the new stands arrived, now, following the advice of McGowan and our own MillerCarbon, I got rid of the spikes and replaced them with a dot of poster putty. Played around with the positioning but kept them in the SBIR-friendly spot close to the wall.


“Miss You” by The Rolling Stones was my reference bass sound during all of this. Great bass line and it now sounds glorious. But I’m still new enough at this game to question my own ears. So allow me to ask the jazz lovers on this forum a question:

Bill Evans’s famous stand at the Village Vanguard has been issued on two albums (probably more). The Paul Motian-heavy “Sunday At” and the more normal sounding “Waltz For Debbie.” In my new setup, I’m “Waltz,” Motian and LeFaro are as loud in the left channel as Evans does in the right. (I may have the channels reversed.) Is this how it’s supposed to sound? In the old days, Evans dominated. Now the famous interplay among this trio is more clear.


It sounds good but it’s definitely a change. Is this how it’s supposed to be?

Worried in Williamsburg.
paul6001
nitewulf
435 posts
 
Paul, I lived in Fort Greene actually at the time, and always took the G to either Greenpoint or WB on the weekends. I was by the Fulton Street stop. No 9, with the broccoli tacos are a perennial favorite.

At GP after a night of drinking and live music, I'd head to Taqueria la Nortena and order a spicy chicken soup, which can make a dead man walk.

And at WB or GP I'd just randomly pop in anywhere with live music, Polish bars with very hardcore metal, The Knitting Factory for indie, and Skinny Dennis for country music!

As for live jazz, I was at Mezzrow in June when things seemed for a second to be moving back to normal. I love Mezzrow because I can walk in anytime without standing in a huge line like Smalls (or the midtown spots). Anyway, it was a great show that night, like most nights - topped it off with Japanese single malts at a low key Japanese bar. But haven't been back since, cause Delta and things have gone downhill again. 

Not to mention the numerous shows at Central Park or Prospect Park Bandshell, and all the stuff at Lincoln Center.

Either way those days seem so far away now, and they weren't even that long ago.
paul6001 OP
98 posts
 
Seems like another century.

Nitewulf, I should make clear that while I once had top-notch hipster credentials, I’m an old man. With kids. As soon as the kids come, your knowledge of NYC cool spots is magically erased. When you’re scanning a menu for chicken fingers, it feels like the battle is lost.

I’m impressed with your knowledge of jazz clubs. This past year has seen me listen to more and more jazz but obviously not seeing ant live.  I’d love to find a place with a good vibe and a good house band. If you know one, the first beer is on me. Except that you can’t exchange personal information here. I’m going 9 to make 1 a lame 7 attempt 4 that will 3 no doubt 4 be caught by 3 the audiogon 8 goons. But if 4 this does 5 get through, I’d love to see some jazz. Delta be damned.

Like you, I’ve stood in line at Smalls. Paid through the nose at the Vanguard. The Jazz Standard, not a bad place, is closed for good. So if you know the right place, I’d be thrilled.

I’ll even do better than a beer. Since you mention Japanese whiskey, do you know Karasu? Kind of a speakeasy-type place in that back of Walter’s on Dekalb Ave. Japanese food, not sushi, some other sort of traditional Japanese restaurant. Its hidden character was pretty much blown when it got revealed in the Times.

Dangerously, it’s directly across the street from my apartment. Walters is doing a roaring outside business (although, as a regular, losing some of its character in the process), but Karasu is still closed. Hopefully, it will open again soon, with the same list of serious Japanese whiskeys, whose prices quickly climb to dizzying heights You show me the jazz, I’ll show you the Yamazaki.

ozzy62's avatar
ozzy62
3,255 posts
 
"If stereophile said it's a problem then it must be"...

See, that in itself is a problem. Too much credence given to the media. Not uncommon, however.

Oz
paul6001 OP
98 posts
 
Ozzy, somehow you seem to have missed the sarcasm in that statement. Not an easy thing to do given that it was as subtle as a sledgehammer. 
avanti1960
1,535 posts
 
when i had the LS50s it was very important to bass response to have solid stands.  i used skylan stands filled with cat litter.  make sure stands make rigid contact with floor, spiked or spiked on discs.  
make sure you use the isolation dots that KEF provides, i have tested them and they are tuned extremely well.  
the stands should be no more than 24 in high.  KEF specifies this for proper floor reinforcement and smooth voicing at the listening spot.  if the tweeters are ear level they will have an exaggerated treble response.  
finally avoid using the plugs and pull them out from the wall behind them at least 24 inches.  
they can sound impressive when setup correctly.  
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