Townshend Pods under TT Don’t Do

@joenies,

I am glad that you experimented and tested springs under your non suspended turntable because now I don’t have to. I also have a heavy mass turntable (Transrotor Apollon 80MM TMD, roughly 130 pounds with three external motors) resting on a nearly 300 pound Clearaudio MontBlanc turntable stand (columns filled with concrete), on a concrete basement floor with stranded bamboo. 

I would like to know what issues you are trying to resolve or if this was a matter  of experimentation? I can knock on the turntable stand and I don’t have any resonant sound getting picked up on the tonearm (who does that when listening to music anyway?), and I am also not getting feedback from excessive loudness from music and bass. It’s not happening, dead silent, so I don’t even think about adding suspension or suspending the turntable because I am completely satisfied with the performance  based on the aggregate of the design parameters of the entire system. That is what is key here, synergy of the entire turntable system. 

Herr Reike from Transrotor has designed some really nice turntables over the years and acoustic feedback elimination is part of that recipe going into the design and build of many Transrotor turntables. Here is a nice video explaining the build details of Transrotor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L38cZ0Bj-Ys


That is why I never bothered to concern myself with the idea of adding a suspension system under my turntable which is built under the principal of being unsuspended. 


A few of my Deutsche audio friends scoff at the idea of adding complexity to an already rigid system combined with mass loaded racks etc, which help to ameliorate many floor and vibration issues. They rationalize that the precision of the design and noise reduction of the combined materials make for a very quiet platform to start with.  I guess at the end of the day, tomato or tomatoe, whichever solution works best for each individuals system is best for them, but not best for all. 
Thanks for the feedback on your attempt of using a suspension system under your mass loaded turntable. It is good for some, not so for others. 

I had no issues with my TT. After reading many articles and post about how great the springs are, I thought I would try them.
my TT sounded very good to my ears, just wanted it to maybe sound better. That plan didn’t work out for me.
My TT is back on the rack and sounding good again and the plus is I don’t have to sneak up on it to make changes.
@audioquest4life 
very nice analog setup you have.

@joenies, 

Thank you for the compliment. The Clearaudio Master Solution is also a nice rig for listening to vinyl records. 

It seems that in this hobby, many of us tend to experiment a lot and test things, products, settings to see if we can gain better performance...or perceived better performance. Sometimes changes are different, but not necessarily better, just different sounding to our ears. That is why this hobby is so fun. We can experiment with our systems and come to a rational conclusion based on our own independent listening tests. 

Glad to hear that your turntable is back on the rack and sounding as it was before. Sometimes, when we attempt to make changes, don't like the change, we may strive harder to get back to our original sound before we messed with anything.  

Cheers, Ciao, und  Freundliche Grüsse, 

Audioquest4life

I know this is an old thread, but I’ve gone through my own trials on this issue, in a small room system with springy floor.

A properly tuned spring suspension is still the BEST affordable TT isolation in this hobby, by far. But whether it’s by SOTA (built-in), Townshend (external platform), or another maker - the key to successful deployment: don’t let the springs get "excited" (i.e. set in motion). Bad things happen, because this in turn can cause the cartridge suspension to get excited - and then, either your woofers will try to escape their cabinets, and/or you’ll get nasty skips and POPs.

So what excites the suspension? Any "event" that causes a displacement. If you’re on a flimsy floor, footsteps near the table are the most common cause. But even enough low frequency feedback from nearby loud speakers / subwoofers could also cause it.

The key problem is that we audiophiles LOVE getting those freestanding "tower" style racks, and then plopping a nice heavy turntable atop it. It looks cool, and it’s functional to us. We like the tower tall enough so our old backs don’t have to bend over. Unfortunately, this is literally the WORST possible turntable support, and a great example of us audiophiles shooting ourselves in the foot. In such a setup, the turntable is cantilevered out into space, and any disruption to the nearby flooring will effect a LARGE displacement unto it. This excites the spring-on-mass resonant frequency suspension, and bad stuff happens.

Expensive high-end racks are typically more rigid with a wider footprint, which honestly helps a lot (but probably not enough proportional to the $$$$ spent on HRS / CMS / SRA / etc) - but often does not fully solve the problem. Adding mass without simultaneously and proportionally increasing rack rigidity does not help, and in fact quite often makes the problem worse! So don’t bother filling your rack with sand/shot. What you SHOULD do, is brace the rack to limit its "cantilever" effect. Easiest is to just push it back up against a strong wall. I found a 2’x2’x2" foam Auralex tile worked great as a shim here, to ensure good contact. You may scoff at the inconvenience this causes for cable routing, but unless you’re on concrete slab - it’s worth it. Even a cheap rack can work great like this! My crappy $600 Lovan performs just as well as the $6K CMS now - and the CMS also was not usable in this room without wall bracing.

One last point that bears repeating - this is Physics 101, but DO NOT EVER stack spring atop springs (e.g. a SOTA on a Townshend platform). Bad things happen.

TLDR; if you find your table on springs is sensitive to footsteps, your rack needs help. Try pushing it up against a wall for starters.

Hmmm, I quickly scanned this thread and did not see the discussion about suspended floors.

Turntables have been in use for well over a hundred year. Suspended floors as well. Turntables that are placed in rooms with suspended floors should be placed on wall mounted shelves… this isolates them from problems associated with the suspended floors like footfalls. This has been the solution for many - many decades. Internal turntable isolation and under to isolation is not designed to deal with the displacements and amplitudes created by suspended floors. They are designed for much lower amplitude higher frequency vibration associated with the turntable itself.

 

Any discussion of vibration control of turntables with suspended floors should begin once the table is located on a shelf.