Kinki studio EX-M1, EX-M1+ differences... vs Denafrips Hestia/ Hyperion combo?

@regismc  &  @jackd 

Very interesting reading your comments/experiences on the Kinki and Denafrips gear as I'm considering heading that way.

I'm currently running Auralic G1 > Holo Spring L2 > Herron VTSP-3 > Rogue Stereo 100 > Silverline Sonata III floorstanders (8ohms, 93 dB sensitivity) & Rythmik sealed sub.

Sound is excellent but a few factors are driving me toward some changes: wifey doesn't like the big Rogue sitting on top of the hifi cabinet, the Herron is only single ended but the Spring DAC is best from its balanced outputs and the Rogue is best via its balanced inputs, there is too much gain in the system, I want to try something new. Room is 19' x 22' x 8' and acoustically treated.

My preferred sound is reasonably neutral and "in the middle", not fast/lean/ultra detailed/analytical and not overtly tubey/schmaltzy/euphonic etc. Even though the Herron and Rogue are both tubed, neither is particularly tubey sounding.

In an attempt to downsize last year I tried a Kinki EX-M1 integrated for a while and loved its low noise floor, dynamics, detail and PRaT but it lacked a touch of warmth (partially alleviated by discrete opamps) and there was something in the sound that I couldn't quite live with. Somehow it seemed excessively damped like harmonics were being truncated (sorry if that doesn't make sense but I'm not sure how to properly explain what I heard/sensed) and there was way too much gain, even on the low gain setting. As much as I loved 99% of what it did, something in my subconscious kept telling me that there was something very slightly unnatural about its portrayal. I don't know if this issue stemmed from the pre-amp or power amp section of the EX-M1 (there was no pre-out to test on another amp) so I had to sell it and my subconscious was then able to fully relax again and enjoy the music with my tube gear again.

I'm thinking that step one may be to replace the single ended Herron with the Denafrips Athena which is unity gain and fully balanced (allowing me to get max performance from my current DAC and amp) with a slightly warm and full bodied persona that might maintain much of the sound qualities I get from the Herron tube preamp, and with a lower noise floor that may convey more detail and dynamics.

Step 2 would be the power amp. Once the Athena was bedded I'd know whether I needed to go for an amp that is slightly faster/leaner (Kinki EX-M7 if it doesn't have the same issue I heard with the EX-M1) or slightly more full bodied (Denafrips Thallo). Either of these amps would fit in my cabinet with 2 or 3 inches space above for ventilation (the back of the cabinet is also open). 

I would try to get loaners to try out in my system but I'd be very grateful for your thoughts on whether you feel this strategy makes sense given my stated goals/preferences.
  

While I can't say anything specifically in regard to Athena, my experience with Hyperion leaves me skeptical that any Denafrips product would be to my liking. The extreme darkness, closed in voicing of Hyperion leads me to believe company doesn't voice their products towards the neutral. Perhaps they balance out end sound signature with darkness in one component, lightness in other, not my cup of tea. I want all my components voice towards the neutral, I can flavor myself.
I also hear this overly warm characterization from some Denafrips Terminator users. Seems the new + series has improved greatly upon this. Perhaps the Athena will reflect this new voicing at Denafrips, in which case it may work well for you.

@dkerr -- I've been experimenting with some different gear lately in my second system. I picked up a Kinki EX-M1+ last week, and I must say my experience is almost the same as yours. It is a good competent amp and does all the 'modern' tricks of neutrality, detail, dynamics, etc. quite well. But just like you, I can't help but feel that something is amiss. I'm impressed but not moved.

I have been helping a family friend build his system based around tube amps. We bought a used VTL I-85 and it is an excellent amp. I'm so impressed that I'm thinking of buying one for myself now. It's not 'modern' sounding per se but it draws you into the music in a way that Kinki can never even dream of.

@sns 

The extreme darkness, closed in voicing of Hyperion leads me to believe company doesn't voice their products towards the neutral.

After everything I've read on the Hestia/Hyperion/Athena, I don't think that there is any doubt that these units are all more full bodied than the Kinki gear which is (comparatively) cooler/leaner/quicker and more overtly detailed. 

Srajan, who prefers the cooler/leaner/quicker "Swiss" sound, makes this point in his comparisons but notes that the delta is small and that his preference would depend on which speakers were in use or even how lively the room was, that it was a case of fine tuning. His testing of the Hestia and Hyperion together indicates that they are both similarly voiced (and the Terminator too) but he doesn't seem to indicate that even using them together takes these traits too far.  

Obviously it also comes down to personal taste as well but I think that you are the first person I've seen to go so far as to use "extreme darkness and closed in" to describe the Hyperion. I do prefer a touch of warmth, full bodied-ness and organicness to overtly detailed, lean or analytical but extreme darkness makes me think twice about purchasing a Denafrips preamp or amp.

Can I ask what amp(s) you compared in that system that made the Hyperion sound extremely dark and closed in? And the speakers used?