2. amps-preamps
  3. 170317-9467

$4000 budget for amp and preamp

Hi all,

Been a while since I posted here...  Been searching the hell out of AVS, ASR and Agon and I can't decide on next steps for my system.  My 2-channel set up has been, for a few years now, QoBuz > Audirvana > Wadia Di122 > Simaudio i-3 > Totem Rainmaker.  This sounds pretty solid in my 10' x 10' home office.  I've been trying to listen more in my living room since I bought a new house.  I've got my older HT there - Streaming or PS3 > ifi DSD or Simaudio D100 > Integra 50.2 > and my new Revel F35's + SB 1000 Pro (plus a Wharfedale center that I picked up on the cheap because wifey liked that it was the same color as the F35's).  I'm pretty satisfied with this set up - but really just for HT.  I'd like to make this my main listening room and I'm wondering if I should just switch to a 2.1 set up.  

I've tried my i-3 with its HT bypass > Integra and I wasn't impressed. I really couldn't tell the difference, to be honest. I tried Direct, Stereo and my native 3.1 with various sources.  I have six Acoustimac 2x4 foot panels that I've yet to hang.  I tried this with and without Audyssey, Dynamic EQ, etc.  

So.  2-channel with a nice amp and pre combo - maybe SS amp with tube pre (+ remote)?  I'm good with used and have always loved the thought of owning an AR tube preamp, but I haven't heard one in such a long time. I was thinking of going a couple different ways.  On the lower end, two Schiit Vidars and a balanced preamp?  There's a mint LS17 SE listed here for $2,200 and I could stretch to allow another $2k for an amp.  I'm also wondering how modern preamps stack up to the older AR models.  Or, should I be looking at something like the Parasound P6?

If the Benchmark AHB2's were available, I might have already pulled the trigger.  Anyway, I'm spinning around here trying to figure out this first world problem.  I've got a 14 X 12 x 11' ceiling room and I listen to rock and hard bop most of the time.  I think I'm okay with the F35's and I'm glad I didn't spend a couple thousand more on the Klipsch Fortes that I so desperately thought I wanted.  When I had a chance to audition them, I thought they were just awful.  To be fair, the room was a warehouse, they were about 5' apart and they were hooked up to a Denon AVR.  

If I got this set up right, I'd probably spend about 80% of the time with music and the other 20% with Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.  After rereading this, I'm not sure what I'm even asking because there's so much information.  Maybe it's how can I best spend $4,000 for the F35's?

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.





chuke076
chuke076 OP
45 posts
 
Thanks, guys.  I hadn't really considered a tube integrated.  I used to own a Primaluna integrated with EL34s and I really liked it with the Totems.  I didn't like leaving it on all the time and would have kept it if it had a remote.  

Glad you mentioned that its 20W is plenty, because I would have thought "no way for HT."  I'm checking them out now and I believe I've read where you've recommended Raven before.  I imagine the sub output is a big help.

I have also considered Rogue.  It seems like there are a lot of Atlas tube amps on the used market for around $1,200-$1,400.  I just wasn't sure what preamp to pair.  Seemed a bit backwards to have a tube amp with a SS pre, instead of the other way around.  I have also seen many Rogue Sphinx integrateds for sale, despite all the good reviews.

My only concern is having a tube power amp or integrated and having it on for most of the day.  I work from home 100% now, and have had both systems on most of the time from 0600 until bedtime.  Would that be a concern?  Would it be the same with tube pre, as well?
tweak1
3,679 posts
 
You won't need tubes if you start with the LSA Voyager 350 GaN amp MSRP $3000. Lots of great reports in the AGon forums. I have one and it is everything they say. Pretty sure it will be your last amplifier: I owned quite a few (both tube and SS) over the decades!

Consider combining it with the Audio GD R28, though a bit of a push from your budget, they are accepting trades toward the Voyager, so you might squeeze them both in

hth

https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/audio-gd


chuke076 OP
45 posts
 
Thanks, tweak.  I was looking at LSA's Discovery Warp 1 as a candidate earlier on.  I didn't realize Audio gd made all those electronics.  I remember them from my headphone days, but never owned any of their gear.  
elliottbnewcombjr
5,571 posts
 
You can have your cake and eat it too.

Home Theater with Tube Amp for the Front Only. (two solutions)
..................................................................................................

Solution One:

"BETTER FRONT" for BOTH Video and Music

1. existing Revel f35 front speakers, they are 90 db/m/w, thus efficient enough for tubes of moderate power.

2. existing Integra AVR

a. controls volume of all video including it’s front pre-outs
b, powers only center and surround speakers
c. pre-out for front L & R to your 2 channel front system

3. new 2 channel front preamp/amp (must have HT Bypass INPUT).

a. Tubes, now or eventually. I say NOW!
b. 2 channel music sources direct to it.
c. it powers the front L&R always
c1. controls volume for 2 channel inputs
c2. AVR controls front volume for video via it’s front pre-outs and the 2 channel front system’s HT Bypass Input.
c3. AVR powers center and surround speakers

.............................................

A separate 2 channel pre-amp with HT Bypass can be tubes, small tubes, not too much heat. Modern feature means recent, nearly new or new. Then off to Amp: SS or Tubes.

A separate 2 channel amp can be SS, less heat, or tubes which is what you say you might want. Vintage; Used; New.
.....................................

Blackhawk

does not have HT Bypass, so it cannot be used without a separate preamp with HT Bypass INPUT for Video surround content.

2 channel sources can go directly to Blackhawk, thus it works as integrated EXCEPT for Video.
.........................................

Solution Two:

EXISTING VIDEO (no change) and NEW MUSIC using the existing front revel f35’s for both

Alternate simple solution: 2 way switch for the FRONT speakers (only).

position A: Integra drives ALL speakers for video as it does now.

position B; new 2 channel music system drives the front speakers

This means no HT Bypass is needed, thus any Vintage/Used/New Integrated or Preamp/Amp combo can be used.

Blackhawk has built-in crossover to send the low bass out to self-powered sub(s), thus it's 20 wpc no longer needs to power woofers, and the front mains smaller bass drivers no longer try to make low bass. Raven says low bass is about 65% of power needs, that is how it's 20 wpc can do such a great job.


soix
9,728 posts
 
Really depends on what sound characteristics you’re looking for and are most important to you.  Why don’t we start there and I think you’ll get better and more targeted recommendations for your particular tastes. 
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