Rock musicians with musical education.


I just want to know if anyone surfed through biographies of their favorite rock bands and found out that one or few members of the band have their higher musical degree.

I know a few Irmin Schmidt(CAN) Stockhousen graduate as a conductor. Main instrument is piano. Plays any kind of musical instrument.
Holger Czukay(CAN) Stockhousen graduate. Main instrument is Horn. Also plays mainly on all instruments.

There are the rock bands that I assume that they have such musicians among but I might mistake: ELP, Jethro Tull.

Share what you know.
128x128marakanetz

All that you write is true, but there is much more to it all than that. Of course, technical ability does not necessarily mean good taste. HOWEVER, extraordinary technical ability opens many doors (musical possibilities) to the player with innate, or developing good taste/musicality. There’s no getting around that. A very innately musical player with limited technical ability may be able to make great use of that limited technical ability in great service to the music, but he will still be.......limited; and, eventually those limitations will be obvious if he ventures outside of his musical comfort zone.

One of the other things to consider in all this is that the genre in question comes into play. This is obviously not at all a comment on or criticism of one genre vs another, but let’s get real. Grasp of advanced harmonic theory, for instance, which is something that requires serious study (formal or otherwise) is not required for the vast majority of Pop and R&R music. Likewise, the kind of incredible technical command necessary for much Classical, particularly modern Classical, and much of Jazz is simply not required for other genres. A Rock drummer may have a fantastic pocket, but most will fall apart playing a Don Ellis chart.

Control, finesse and good taste are not genre specific and are hallmarks of good musicianship regardless of genre. Add tasteful use of a boundless technique to the mix and you have something really special.

As I see it, it is really pointless to insinuate that great chops are anything but a plus for a musician and lack of it is sometimes becomes an excuse for one’s limitations.

**** Now, name any formally-educated songwriter you care to cite, and compare his or her compostions with those of, say, Brian Wilson, Paul McCartney, or John Lennon. Whose songs do you prefer?.... ****

Since we are mixing genres, just one of several that come to mind:

George Gershwin

**** Education cannot transform modest talent into genius.... ****

Absolutely true, but it can and has elevated modest talent to, if not genius, much higher levels than what some considered "modest" at one time in that musician’s career. Many established and revered players considered John Coltrane a hack early in his career.

**** Studying J.S. Bach’s compositions will help one understand them, but not necessarily how to write like he ****

True....mostly. If, of course, one thinks Bach was the greatest composer to ever live. A subjective call. Moreover, if one considers the inevitable stylistic evolution of the genre it becomes difficult to make that call. Perhaps not quite on the same exalted level of the Baroque style as Bach himself, but most of the great composers that followed Bach studied his works extensively and part of their training (formal or otherwise) was precisely to compose works in the style of Bach. Mozart, who I think most would agree was also a genius, studied privately with Bach himself. Genius and all, one has to wonder what Mozart’s music would be like had there been no Bach. By the same token, Bach studied the works of composers that predated such as Telemann and Palestrina very diligently.

We tend to like to put the answers to these questions into neat and tidy boxes. They are usually anything but.

My overall feeling about this, but this may be pejudiced by the types of music I listen to, is that, an advanced musical education, in both technique and theory, is much more likely to help, rather than harm the resulting music.

If a musician or composer has a greater knowledge of tehcnique and theory, they have more language to call upon in order to help them convey the emotiaonal and/or intellectual content they want.

I am defienitely not a follower of the old addage, "2 chords and the truth" as it is applied to country and blues.

I love complexity and high levels of musicianship in the various genres of music I listen to. And, the resulting emotional and intellectual experience they bring about.

@frogman: You make a good case, with which I agree wholeheartedly. The only genius I’ve known majored in music in college, got his masters in education, and spent his final years (he died from a heart attack at only 55 years of age) recording Bach works at home. When I was recording with him in the 70’s, the only Pop music/writers/musicians he was interested in/liked were Brian Wilson, Randy Newman, Dylan, and The Band. Talent (a great songwriter, he decided not to persue a career in music), education, and taste, the trifecta.

@simonmoon: Actually, it’s three chords ;-) . And in especially good songs, a bridge (middle 8 in England) adds a couple/few more

@frogman: 

"As I see it, it is really pointless to insinuate that great chops are anything but a plus for a musician". 

 I'd never agree with the notion that technical facility/theory are "detrimental" but if you are suggesting that acquiring these faculties somehow guarantees one will have something worthwhile to communicate or know how to communicate it tastefully, then we profoundly disagree. 

 

@simonmoon:

"I love complexity and high levels of musicianship in the various genres of music I listen to. And, the resulting emotional and intellectual experience they bring about"

This illustrates the degree to which personal taste enters into discussion of this topic. While complexity brings YOU a particular emotional and intellectual experience, surely you realize complexity may not have the same impact upon others, who may indeed prioritize very different "results". 

I am no dummy but personally, I do not want to be "in my head" when listening to music. I want to be emotionally and physically engaged. Different strokes for different folks...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

stuartk, thanks for responding to what I wrote. Please tell me exactly what it was I wrote that might give that impression. I wrote nothing remotely like that. What you quote doesn’t suggest that in the least in the context of the totality of what I wrote.