If a " system " cannot do this, I move on........


I have been advocating on here for some time, that horn speakers ( properly designed, tweeked, executed and set up ) are the only speakers that my brain and ears find acceptable, for the enjoyment of music listening. My listening standard has been live, unamplified music, for now over 50 years. I have also stated on many occasions, that as an audiophile ( as well as being a music listener ), that we are hindered by the recordings themselves, minimizing what we actually are hearing. There has been much talk lately about engineers using " auto tune " ( specifically with vocalists ). Adele ( I am a fan ), with her new hit " Easy On Me ", does not use auto tune, and I am thrilled. Besides being a great singer, she sounds " natural ", less processed. Most recordings in the past 20 years, have used this other electronic " equalization " if you will, that we find embedded in out prescious recordings. The strive for perfection, that " audio nirvana ", we all seek, with the purchase of a new speaker, amplifier, cables, etc., gets us only so far. So yes, dynamics and details are very important to me. Tone, coherence and spatiality are also very important. But the reality is, our recordings, by the time we receive / hear them ( whatever format ), have been severly altered from being close to the real thing. Yet, audiophiles continue to spend big bucks on their gear, their rooms ( their systems ), to get to that place of enjoyment. The title of this thread, " If a system cannot do this, I move on ", has a specific meaning. What I listen for, most of all, with every recording I listen to, is an engagenment between me, and the performers. Following the individual rhythms and musical lines, by the artists, is the number one factor I strive to hear. My system allows for this. My question is : how many of you actually listen for this, or even know what I am speaking of. My personal experience listening to so many high priced systems, has been very disappointing in using this criteria. I am not anticipating this thread to develop into a very large or popular one, but I have not participated in Agon for a while, and I just wanted to shine a light on a subject that is crucial to us and our time listening to music, which some of us spend much time doing. Enjoy, and be well. Always, MrD.

mrdecibel

Got my speakers.  They were horns, cause that's what I had before.  These are much better.  But when I put them in two years ago, I had lots to do.  Get the digital right.  Treat the room.  Move speakers around.  Adjust subs.  Still, it wasn't quite there.  I got rid of the harshness with the above, but soundstage was flat and I still got that fatigue.  Finally, when it happened, it was like the sea had parted.  Taller wider deeper soundstage.  The notes decaying, visualizing where they recorded the record, hearing individual parts of individual strings plucked.   No, these horns don't sound forward to me.   I know, you can do this with other speakers, but I like the efficiency, the dynamics, details, So it took me a couple years to wring all of this out of my system.  I think I'm there, until I find something else to improve!

And thank you, Mr. Decibel, you were one of the ones who welcomed me to this forum and offered suggestions. 

I am not going to sugar coat this.

I have spent time on the recording side, the live performance side, and home system side of music. I was asked by my brother to apply my skills and knowledge as an ex aerospace/defense engineer to the recording/playback issue you are describing.

It turns out making a great recording is usually not an accident, but making exceptional recordings is rare and usually is just luck. However, there are a few recording engineers who know at least some of the secrets. The big secret is "high performance cabling". If you want to push the limits even farther then the connectors on the equipment needs to be upgraded and some equippment may require recapping. Endorsement is a big issue on the recording and performance side so I won't tell you who I have done work for.

But just like in the Audiophile world the question is what makes for a "exceptional cable" and which cables sound the best. It boils down to what is good enough for the job.

In my cable design studies I have attempted to reduce the difference between a live performance and a recording of that performance. My lab was a recording/playback room with typical "Rock Band" equipment and I can barely play an instrument and off to the side I had a electronics lab with fabrication capibilities. When accuracy and noise control are pushed to the limits of available materials, previously unheard detail and emotion are uncovered in the music and it is like you have never heard the recording before.

I did find something I did not expect in my studies. Some peoples brains reject what others call an improvement. The people who's brains accept the increase in performance appear to be addicted to the sound created. I am one of those people. In case you were wondering my design work only looses a cable shoot out on price, The competetion will reduce the price until they sell their cable.

There is one problem with my cable designs, it will uncover every inadequacy (or lowest performance item) in a system and I expect the owner to blame me. Therefore I highly suggest only one brand of cable in a system, mixing causes problems. Ray Seda wrote a review in two articles describing this problem of mixing cables.
Tom
Audio Union

With obvious bass issues, I have to say that many elctrostatic speakers rival or supass many horns systems in realistic sound reproduction.

I acknowledge that mating a sufficiently good subwoofer with an eletrostat can be problematic.

Welcome back Mr. D.!

I, too, am beholden now to horns.  And like you, I'm at a spot where the quality of recording takes things to a special place.  That said, unlike, you, I can enjoy a Jethro Tull recording--not picking on you...I've had all sorts of issues with all sorts of systems over the years. 

I looked at your systems page and I didn't see any components listed. Would you mind sharing?  

I agree that Adele can really sing and she would never need autotune but for "effect", which is not my taste.  I do, however, hold the opinion that some of her records could be recorded and mastered better.  Some of her greates songs sound like they are always running full throttle and things get busy/smeary for me--across lots of systems.  I think she needs to work with T Bone Burnette.   

Coincidentally, have you heard Imelda May's album, Life Love Flesh Blood?  It's produced by T Bone.  If Adele sounded (from a production, engineering and mastering perspective....) like this I'd buy everything and perhaps a Reel to Reel deck to hear it.  Sublime.