Ridiculous assertions that someone is being ripped off or conned


How many times has this scenario played out here? Someone purchases product X, and tries it in their system. They report positive results, that it works as advertised, that they got their money’s worth, that they are happy with the purchase. Then someone, usually having zero experience with the product, replies with something like: “No, you’ve got it all wrong! You’re being ripped off! You’re being conned!


Does anyone else understand how ridiculous and absurd these kinds of assertions are?! The consumer who actually put up their own money and took the time to evaluate the product in their own home/system reports it works as advertised, they are happy with it, that they got their money’s worth. Then someone else claims they were ripped off?!


Imagine an agency investigating consumer fraud getting a complaint like this: “My neighbor is being ripped off!” “No, no, he thinks it’s great, does everything he expected it to. He’s very happy with it, but I just know he’s being conned!” Do you seriously think they’re going to open any kind of investigation into it?


You can disagree with what someone says about the effectiveness of a product all you want, but to say they have been defrauded, when they report the exact opposite, is patently ridiculous.


tommylion

Canuck audio forum cable forum rules end up being effective in this sort of way:

The premise, is that area of the fourm is for threads that talk about tweaks, cables, the efficacy of mods and tweaks, what they should sound like, or not sound like. It does not preclude talking about the idea of discovery work in why they work the way they do. it does not preclude discussing the potentials in science and engineering and the discovery work in why they appear to work they way they do.

What is forbidden, is to interrupt such discussions about such product, devices, ideas and/or musing on it all. It is forbidden to interrupt and call it all lies, and snake oil, hogwash, unreal,and so on.

One is forbidden to ARGUE that it is all garbage. That it is all unscientific.

One can discuss the efficacy of such thing and investigate it’s origins.

One can’t denigrate and attack it’s basis for being or it’s exploration in a negative way.

That’s it. nothing more.

If there is a discussion of any type of that nature going on, and the negativity was not invited, then it can’t get into the conversation.

If the topic INVITES the discussion of it’s basis or reality, in science, THEN the discussion of such - is on. but importantly, not in a ngetive way that says the premise is unreal.

Where lets say, I heard what I heard. The naysayer cannot, even by sly wording, via gaming their wording - argue agaisnt the hearing of it. I heard what I heard. the end. what all that means is fair game if the duscssion of it is invited. but the heard thing was heard. That -----is not posible to dispute.

And no, they don’t have to announce that they don’t want the negative input. Negative input is forbidden unless specifically asked for.

Oh yes, hatred against tweaks and cables, etc, starting such thread in the cable and tweaks forum area -is forbidden. If one want to to do that, they can go and do that in some other forum area.

~~~~~~~~~~

The result, is that no one talks about how good or bad cables are, how good or bad tweaks are, how such things sound, and so on. No one bothers, as they already know the stuff is real and it works. it works well, or or works poorly (for the individual, etc). it is a good deal a bargain... or it is a poor choice? and results vary, for people and their audio systems. this is all expected and is all known things, for the people who think and do such, concerning their own audio systems.

But, importantly, IF the subjectively heard sonic results of experimentation, is raised (I hear this, etc).. no one is allowed to INTERFERE in the conversation. No one is allowed to inject any negative takes into the conversation.

If they want to do that, they have to go to OTHER forum areas to do that. they can create a thread where they burn flags and effigies of the horrible tweak and cable using/discussing people.

The people who use tweaks and cables, etc.. where they understand it subjectively or even scientifically... they won’t interfere or get involved, for the most part. they know they are dealing with projections and Karen complexes (some are even visibly frothing!), much of it executed or framed in a VERY poorly misunderstood idea of what science is. Haters, talk amongst yourselves, is the result. No. One. Cares.

The result is peace, bliss, silence. Cable and tweak dissent and hatred disappears from the forum, almost entirely.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

What is all ends up saying:

If one is worried that all that cable and tweak stuff is going to take over the given forum, well, simply... it does not happen. It just doesn’t. that boogeyman does not exist. It’s a projecting Karen twist of the mind.

What does exist, though... is the outsized hatred based response to tweaks and cables, etc.

That reactionary insanity..when it is disallowed from interrupting discussions, it is found to be what the tweaker and cable believers know it to be --an emotionally based animal response that is totally out of control. That the cable hater doth protest too much. And that is the part that has to be told off and cooled off, blocked off.

And the result, is peace for all, in this subject area only, of course. There are plenty of other things to react blindly about, for everybody....

after Everything else is paid for, and the emergency account is full, I'll try some of the tweaks mentioned / bashed / promoted in this (and other) thread(s). only if i can return it. why not ? nobody will know as i won't mention it on a forum.

Real audiophiles have close friends that occasionally get together to have the music.......play on,  and arouse areas of their brain that they wish could last for eternity. 

Screw the narcissistic, bourgeoise...it defines a class of humanity that has none. 

There are two separate issues here. First, several of the comments conflate disrespectful and insulting comments with demands that personal observations be supported with scientific data and theory. There is never a reason to be rude in your response to a member's reported experience with a product, whatever you may think of that product. It's reasonable to ask for more information, but to deny the validity of the observation is unacceptable.

Second, many of the comments demanding evidence beyond that offered by the original post are based on fallacious understandings of the scientific enterprise. Underlying many of the comments from the naysayers is the assumption that only things that are well understood are valid scientifically. This simply is not true. Scientific inquiry often begins with anomalous observations, outcomes that are not understood. In these cases, the scientific enterprise is optimized when we strive to find the causal path that explains heretofore mystifying observations, not when we dismiss the observations as invalid. The tendency among the "technocrats" and "scientists" in these discussions to dismiss anomalous observations only serves to constrain scientific progress. Better to accept, evaluate  and dismiss after detailed analysis 10 faulty observations than to dismiss without consideration one valid observation. That is, our understanding progresses when we open our minds to possibilities we can't imagine, not when we dismiss out of hand observations of which we don't approve.

May the audio gods grace your ears.