Dustcover Blues


Most of you probably know that I have always championed the use of dustcovers on turntables even during play, the goal being to protect the record from the environment and shield it from sound. For the first time in my audio career I have stumbled into a problem with this and other than not putting the dustcover down I have not come up with a solution. 

Yesterday I was playing Herbie Hancock's Secrets and I cranked it on my favotite song. After about 30 seconds the room started to rumble. My subs were putting out a remarkably clean 20 Hz as if I were playing a test tone. Feedback! Just turn the volume down a little and it disappears. Turn the volume back up and within 30 seconds it starts up again. Did I screw up my cartridge set up? I veiwed the tonearm during the feedback and it was rock solid. Usually with low frequency feedback you can see the tonearm shaking. I played the resonance tracks on an Ortofon test record and both lateral and vertical resonance were centered on 9 Hz With the feedback going and the house shaking I wanted a better look at the cantilever. On lifting the dustcover the feedback stopped!  The dust cover is attached to the plinth which is isolated from the sub chassis (tonearm and platter mounted on this) by four springs. The resonance frequency of this suspension is 2 Hz. Nothing above 2 Hz can pass directly through to the platter and tonearm. What is going on here? Any of you scientists out there have a clue? My best guess is that I am dealing with a type of Helmholtz resonation. The dust cover is lowered on four hard rubber pads, one at each corner. There is a 1/16" slot all the way around. This combined with the weight and dimensions of the dust cover creates a resonance at 20 Hz. To get it going I have to turn the volume way up. 

Today when I get home I'll play around with it to see if I can figure it out. Any ideas would be appreciated. 

128x128mijostyn

Man! You really like to turn it up. Most people that come into my listening room where the 845PXs are located (otherwise known as "our living room") complain to me that I listen too loud. My sound labs probably go lower in the bass region than yours do without subwoofers, because of greater square area of radiating surface, but I do realize that with subwoofers you’re probably getting deeper base than I do. on the other hand I am hearing wonderful continuous bass down as low as I think there is any important music.

You once had an issue due to your room frequency response correction paraphernalia.  Could it be that the same circuitry is boosting the bass in the problematic region, thereby either exacerbating the problem or actually causing it?  Also, if the problem is caused by the Helmholtz Resonator mechanism, wouldn't you expect that shutting down the subwoofers and running the ESLs full range would not so much cure the problem (as you observed) but only reduce the intensity and clarity (because now the ESLs are straining to deal with the still present spurious LF input).  The Atma-sphere amplifiers can certainly get down that low and lower.  The Helmholtz hypothesis is happening at the turntable, so shutting down the subwoofs per se should not "cure" the problem. (By the way, if you are crossing over at 120Hz, I would call them "woofers", not subwoofers, but that's semantics. I think of a true subwoofer as a woofer that comes in at below 50-60Hz, to choose an arbitrary cut-off.)  In my Beveridge system, I cross over to my home-made TL woofers at 80Hz, with an 18db/octave slope.  Have you entertained the notion that the bass energy dumped into the room at high SPLs on bass-heavy passages is feeding back to the dust cover itself, maybe setting it into motion which affects the cartridge stability in the groove? As you know, bass frequencies are encoded largely by horizontal motion of the stylus/cantilever.

Partial retraction.  OK, I see that if it were the movement of air in the room, caused by your woofers, that was inducing the Helmholtz effect, then shutting down the woofers would possibly reduce the SPLs sufficiently to ameliorate the Helmholtz resonance of your dust cover/TT.  I guess I just find it hard to believe that your subwoofers blow around enough air to do that, but I have not been there, as you have.  Still, I would take a look at your room frequency response correction devices at the suspect frequencies.

Your microphone test for proving the utility of a dust cover.  Isn't that highly dependent upon the room, the speakers, and the proximity of the TT to the speaker?  In other words, you could prove it for yourself and your system, but not universally for all situations. I'd move my turntables before employing a dust cover to shield the tonearm/cartridge from SPLs.  In addition, what do we know about the importance of the effect you observe, in terms of ultimate fidelity?

Dear @mijostyn : I don't know which kind of material you are using in the dust cover.  Years ago when I was using two Denon TTs 80/75 each one was mounted in an Onyx 50kg base and the other marble of more or less same kgs. and I was using with dust covers made it of tigthness glass really thick and I can't remember any trouble down there. Dust cover material is critical.

 

I don't use any more.

 

R.

 

R.

@mijostyn  : At some time we should just seat and enjoy the MUSIC in each one room/audio system.

 

That " time " is different for all of us and I can see that it's not yet your time. You are still looking for the best way to arrive at the top quality level in your system.

 

All of us live years and years of room/system up-dates/up-grades/tweaks and the like.

 

Today my "time " let me enjoy more and more listening MUSIC hours and I think that my " time " is arriving to its end. Can I be sure about? well more or less.

 

What am I  doing on my system this weekend? something that's a necessity but not really and up-date or tweack job: my Levinson 20.6 Reference monoblocks amplifiers have around 33 years that were made and these running pure class A design over those years work with no single fault but the power supply filter capacitors  I think " needs " to be changed and that's what I'm doing. The cap´s already arrives from Mouser: Vyshay_Sprega and that's it.

 

Sooner or latter you will done on your room system with out missing the " fun " of those years of up-dates.

 

R.

 

 

I have custom acrylic dustcovers for my 2 turntables(that are on Townshend platforms) to cover when not playing.

 

While I wouldn't mind, I thought it wasn't a good idea to use them during playing.