Dustcover Blues


Most of you probably know that I have always championed the use of dustcovers on turntables even during play, the goal being to protect the record from the environment and shield it from sound. For the first time in my audio career I have stumbled into a problem with this and other than not putting the dustcover down I have not come up with a solution. 

Yesterday I was playing Herbie Hancock's Secrets and I cranked it on my favotite song. After about 30 seconds the room started to rumble. My subs were putting out a remarkably clean 20 Hz as if I were playing a test tone. Feedback! Just turn the volume down a little and it disappears. Turn the volume back up and within 30 seconds it starts up again. Did I screw up my cartridge set up? I veiwed the tonearm during the feedback and it was rock solid. Usually with low frequency feedback you can see the tonearm shaking. I played the resonance tracks on an Ortofon test record and both lateral and vertical resonance were centered on 9 Hz With the feedback going and the house shaking I wanted a better look at the cantilever. On lifting the dustcover the feedback stopped!  The dust cover is attached to the plinth which is isolated from the sub chassis (tonearm and platter mounted on this) by four springs. The resonance frequency of this suspension is 2 Hz. Nothing above 2 Hz can pass directly through to the platter and tonearm. What is going on here? Any of you scientists out there have a clue? My best guess is that I am dealing with a type of Helmholtz resonation. The dust cover is lowered on four hard rubber pads, one at each corner. There is a 1/16" slot all the way around. This combined with the weight and dimensions of the dust cover creates a resonance at 20 Hz. To get it going I have to turn the volume way up. 

Today when I get home I'll play around with it to see if I can figure it out. Any ideas would be appreciated. 

128x128mijostyn

Dear @mijostyn  : Thia is what I posted:

"" 

Now, I think that you are not measuring what you need to measure ( I don't know what you need to measure. ) or you are doing not in the rigth way.

In theory everything can be measured " problem " is what to measure and you have to " figure " out about in ""

 

You posted: " sealing off the space under the turntable with a skirt. "

You with all your measure tools still does not know what happened down there with out the skirt.

 

" The final solution is a new plinth... ", yes that's the easy road to go that not necessary warranty success: maybe yes or maybe not.

 

R.

 

 

 

Dear @lewm   : "" I don't care much about frequencies below 30Hz.  I much prefer a "fast" woofer that can mate well with an ESL around the crossover point.  A seamless blend is hard to come by..""

Who told you all that including that no sense " fast " woofer or your statement came from your first hand experiences and I said " first hand experiences " because you are totally sure about. Could you explain it?

Btw, please read this link:

 

 

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/maxdb/maxdb061999.htm

 

R.

@lewm , It can work either way. I think the majority of people building subwoofers come up with a design concept, then choose an appropriate driver and finally given the parameters of the specific driver tweak the dimensions of the enclosure to suit. 

If you look at the picture of my system on the floor you will see a woofer to the outside of each panel then in the center those two boxes on the floor are subwoofers. They are pointed at eachother. These woofers have 200 lb sealed enclosures with a Q of 7.6. 

The new design is a decagon cylinder with 1.5 to 2" side walls (they vary). There will be a 12" driver mounted in each end. They will also be sealed. There is no reason to resort to ports when you have advanced "room control" which is really speaker control. With enough power you can make a subwoofer do just about anything. I would have liked to use larger drivers but space will not allow.

The tonality of a system is debatable and we all have our own preferences. What is not is image and detail. DSP allows you the adjust the frequency response of the channels individually so that they are exactly the same. This gives the best image and with it detail. Every audiophile that has heard it goes out and gets a processor and I am not kidding, every single one. 

Lastly, there is no such thing as a "fast subwoofer" when a woofer is not fast enough it's high frequencies roll off. Usually, the cone breaks up first.  Even 18" drivers can make it to 500 Hz. I think what people really mean by this is muddy vs well defined. Mud is coming primarily from the enclosure. Then there is the amp's ability to control the driver. Some amps are good at it, others not so hot. You need a powerful amp with a very low impedance output stage. Transmission lines are a way of effectively doubling the size of the driver at certain frequencies. They are very difficult to make and require a lot of trial and error tuning. It is much easier to use large drivers or a multitude of small ones.

 

@rauliruegas , I know exactly what is going on. The two chambers above the subchassis are resonating at 24 Hz. This causes the subchassis to bounce at 24 Hz. This is picked up by the cartridge completing the feedback loop. The sub chassis is a solid 1" thick aluminum plate that extends to within 3/32" of all sides of the plinth. Your middle ear has a vent tube to release pressure. It is called the Eustacean Tube. When it gets block your hearing gets damped by up to 10 dB at some frequencies because pressure in the middle ear will not allow the ear drum to move as well. On a hunch I decided to block my turntable's Eustacean Slot with the skirt you see on my system page effectively giving it a hearing problem. It was very easy to test. The first track on Soundgarden's Badmotorfinger gets the feedback going throughout the entire song. With the skirt in place there is none. It is a bit hard to miss. When a 24 Hz feedback loop gets going the entire house shakes.

Right now the skirt works perfectly I just have to dress it up a bit. Yes, I can and will build a new plinth that won't do this when I run across that special plank of wood. If I am going to put in all that effort it has to be very special.

Dear @mijostyn  : Good, I applaud your attitude to achieve the best sound that puts you nearer to the recording and nearer to the live MUSIC.

 

I'm sure that your new subs will be an improvement as the new plinth however anything you do can't  carry to full success till you change the item that proccess the cartridge signal and that's is the Phonolinepreamp.

 

No matters what the unit you own rigth now is way inferior of what you are looking for..

 

Yes, it's up to you.

 

R.