SET the best?

@david_ten

Thanks David! ;

There was a user named plino who was asking the question about the effects of the rolloff further from region where it starts to roll off noticeably.

I guess I missed the @@@ :)

I did say above 

**PP amps are not so much needed with a  SET around, now more readily avaliable..**

WEll I am still in experimenting stage.

I am learning alot about what a  SET does and  not doing so well.

Depends on the recording, music.

Its a complex issue.

When I get new KT88's in the Defy, I can make further comments, 

In classical chamber/light jazz/blues, a  SET  takes precedence , pure linearity, astonishing rendering of the midrange.

With more complex music, like say Santana McLaughlin Love Devotion Surrender,  Although SETs offer... every detail in midrange, the bass and highs are indeed rolled off a  bit

So here's some  early conclusions.

CM being mainly midrange, roll off in highs and lows (as engineers miced  far away from kettle drums, cello sections, which is how a  orch SHOULD be mic-ed)

SETs excel in linera/liquid midrange

Full Range Speakers are not really **full range** But the DIYers wish   the FR tag remain on the speaker. A Full Range is really a  FULL Midrange with some bass, some highs

So the Equation goes

CM + SET + FR = perfect combination. 

That is to say if you love CM in all its variations, there is no better amplifier than a  SET and for speakers, nothing will outperform a  **Full* Range speaker.

In driving jazz/blues, seems to me PP amplification is the power for the superior soundstage.

And  in more complex music, a  midwoofer with cutoff somewhere at 500-1khz is  a  must have. Any tweeter is also a  must have, both in light jazz/chamber and complex driving music. Adds sheen.

So to anser the OP 

*Are SETs  the best?*

DEpends on what music is on the turn table and what the audiophile expects. 

I had to bring up speakers in the topic, as a  SET amp w/o the right speaker,,and what do  we have?

In comes horns and or FR.

PP amps  are not as limited in speaker selection. 

But I would strongly recommend FR + Assist for all tube amplification. 

My guess is the Defy will render the Love Devotion Surrender cd with more dynamics, bass/high extenstions. 

So I was indeed wrong in my above opinion, a  SET is not **end all/be all**

There is still a   place   for a  PP amplifier. in certain recordings. 

That said, I wonder if  hooked up dual  8 inch manesium midwoofers,  and had  the 845 amplification , now its more than likely my opinion is indeed correct.

WE do not need a  PP amplifier.

The main issue with a  845 amplifier is the weight and price tag. 

Takes resources to obtain a  845 amplifier. And really , ideally best are  mono blocks. 

If I could do it all over again,  I would not have a big PP amp, it would be the 845 + FR speakers.

I went down the wrong path, 

Then again, the DavidLouis were not out back in 2008, and I would never pay $5k for a  FR driver. 

So its all finally comming together.

FR is the ideal speaker for a   845 SET,,all I need now is the mono blocks.

I believe a  845 will do everything the Defy 7 with 12 KT88's can do, but only much superior.

So ,,, back again,,, PP amps are not at all needed  when there is a  845 in the house. Thats my final opinion, 845 surpasses all PP amlification in all genres. 

The 845 has more muscle than a  300B , UX250 and many other SET designs. 

Let me try to summerize  my very long winded post above

~~SET amplificatio allows <<<more>> of the emotional expression of the music to come through~~~

<<More>> meaning are the speakers  CAPABLE of voicing this emotive expression??

SEe how amp + speakers is critical in SET amplification. 

AS my mantra goes 

Speakers are everything

EVEN MORESO critical with a  SET amplifier. 

Just trying to express things that are longgggg over due for clearing  up 

~~~The Mystery of SETs~~~

and the saga of the Magical Mystery Tour (Beatles 1967) of SET discovery continues........

Wow! More of the ever-evolving absolute conclusions based on very limited experience.  It is one thing to say that you have heard, and liked, a certain 845 amp running a particular set up, but, that does not then lead to a conclusion that "845 surpasses all PP amplification in all genres" and that PP amps are not needed.  

I have heard a number of 845 amps, and liked quite a few, but, none were clearly better than a whole bunch of SETs running other tubes.  If higher power is needed, does it have to be an 845?  How many 211, 833 and 1610 amps have you similarly auditioned?  In all of these comparisons, how many pushpull amps and tube types have you auditioned other than the Defy7?  Also, OTL amps are pushpull amps--how many of these have you also auditioned?  

No none of the above

Hey Larry

I am only basiing my opinions on some sound bites from our local tech,,who has heard quite a few SETs and has built a 300B SET.

All I was trying to say is that the 845 hasa good reputation for delivering the goods.

My tech points in the 845 direction for what he feels will give me best bang.

He also likes most other SET tubes.

I mean if we want to take this to the last word in SETs

There’s always Kronzilla 4 tube PER CHASSIS!!!! Super SET.

Now that amp will beat any PP amp.

But back to reality.

Sure my exp is limited to the UX250,

What I was trying to express is a SET design will offer a certain liquid midrange that I doubt even Jadis new KT170 will deliver.

Again not heard the 170 but PP is not going to be same sound image as a SET.

btw my tech does not care for the 300B in any part of a SET design. AS main or driver.

But again my guess is the bass of a KT PP amp will deliver a superior bass response, and maybe highs.

Give and take.

I prefer midrange liquid gold, as my CM is 95%+ midrange fq’s.

SET vs PP 2 dif sound fields. .