You Cant Buy It but you Can Build It

@mijostyn --

"... put on anything with a little low bass in it and turn it up to your usual listening level. Put your hand on the bass horn say just inside the mouth. Feel that vibration? Any vibration you feel is audible distortion. Getting any large structure not to vibrate at bass frequencies is extraordinarily difficult. This is the problem with bass horns. They add way too much coloration."

This is grossly incorrect and an assertion that clearly doesn’t rest in experience - period. My counter reply here would apply even at SPL’s where most typical commercial subs would’ve left the building, but you’re talking "usual listening levels"? Come on. I’ve you have ever listened to a pair horn subs in a home environment, which VERY few people ever have, you would know that they - properly implemented (and this goes for any sub principle) - produce a smooth, effortless and enveloping bass, quite different even from direct radiating designs. They may be big structures, but made of high quality plywood or even MDF they're sufficiently sturdy as the internal horn path acts as effective bracing, which is furthermore reinforced with additional bracing to support the horn path itself. Moreover the horn acts as a low-pass filter and thus filters out harmonics and driver induced noise that would otherwise be readily exposed from direct radiators which are working much harder being much less sensitive. Horn subs produce "way too much coloration"? No, sir, it’s the other way ’round.

"You would literally have to make the horn out of concrete. Getting a small enclosure not to resonate is difficult enough but a horn is virtually impossible. There are very few horns that make it below 30 Hz. The K horn is already down 4 dB at 33 Hz. A horn that makes it down to 18 Hz would be huge and even more difficult to control. The driver is happy as a clam, the horn itself is an audiophile nightmare which is why you do not see or hear many of them."

The predominant reason you don’t see horn subs in home environments is because so very few are available and that they’re very big. Oh, and the few that are are typically very expensive. Please name me a couple of commercially available, non-DIY horn subs that not only you but audiophiles at large are actually aware of. Horn subs aren’t disregarded by audiophiles for some speculated flaws of theirs, but because by and large they’re simply not part of the audiophile narrative.

Great bass requires big size, and proper implementation here is automatically assumed. 20Hz honest reproduction from a horn sub necessitates roughly 20 cubic feet of enclosure volume. Sure, that’s a lot, but it is manageable if you set your mind to it. As Arnold (and Nike) would’ve said: Just do it!! ;)

@mahlman This isn't you vs I thing. Whether laptop or tower, there are better servers than general service computer. You don't have to take my word for it, again, do the research. Better yet, try a server engineered for audio only, nothing beats the experience of trial and error.

The experienced diy understands there are many things still to learn and experience. The curious desire experience, not afraid to admit they may not know everything. I listen and learn from those with experience beyond my own. I'm not trying to teach you anything, just telling you what I learned and experienced first hand, all credit goes to experts further along learning curve. All my diy work based on this philosophy.

@phusis  "produce a smooth, effortless and enveloping bass, quite different even from direct radiating designs."

 You bet they do. Hard to convey the impact they make to people who have not heard good horns. One of my favorite sound effects to play as a demo for people is Japanese Fireworks. Just like real life and the sound is so precise and quick and if you want to turn it up there is even a concussive wave that will hit you. And drums and stringed instruments with none of the lag time moving massive cones with large excursion create. Closest to real life as I have ever heard.

@sns  I suppose it is possible. I have people who stop in on occasion to hear the big horns that tell me the same thing. I encourage them to bring that gear they think so highly of with them next time and lets see. No one has brought gear with them but they have come back to listen again. Right now I am not dumping a bunch of cash on things that might work better when peer review plus my ears and curves tell me what I have does work.

@phusis, sorry lad, it would appear your experience is lacking. I have heard and built Horn subwoofers. Mahlmans's sense of vibration is not good. I hope he is not diabetic. The other answer would be that his horns do not go very low which is in keeping with his other posts.  Yes, horns are very efficient but, bass is bass and it is very powerful and hard to contain. Any subwoofer, horn or otherwise putting out 20 Hz at 85 dB is going to shake and it is going to shake the entire house. Making one that does not vibrate with just the distortion produced by the driver is virtually impossible. There are examples that come close, Magico's Q subs come to mind. I might be able to do better. We shall see. I have been designing and building subwoofers for almost 40 years.

As for horns being the best type of driver, they have their advantages. I am waiting to hear a horn system that is not colored. They also require crossovers. IMHO the best type of system is a one way driver crossed to a subwoofer below 125 Hz where digital bass management is easy to apply. The only one way driver that is truly one way is an ESL. With horns you are also stuck with a point source system. It does not matter how big they get.  Line sources project power better particularly in the bass and are more capable of generating the visceral sensations of a live concert.  

How in the world is it that audio seems to draw those who know everything and also know the singular best way? I listen to what others say and incorporate good things I find into what I build and do. My list of those I listen to though grows fairly small over time and the ones I take seriously were vetted through the results they delivered in either their advice to me or their personal work I CAN VERIFY by putting my hands on it.

  I see @mijostyn that you have many opinions and I disagree with many of them as my real world experience sitting in my shop right now says you like to throw stuff out there and sound authoritative, but you are not. You have passed today into the read for amusement but not for info category.

  You seem quite stuck on subs but remember my big horn set is roughly -5db at 27hz and drops off quick after that and is not a sub but part of a two way system for 27hz to 18.5khz sound.

 Do you honestly think I will take you seriously when the evidence, the physical evidence that is, is in my shop and you say it can't be done. It's a shame you have never had a chance to hear good horns in that 40 years of experience you tout.