2. analog
  3. 172820-41852

Turntable upgrade recommendations: SME vs AMG vs Technics vs other

I've recently upgraded most of my system, but I still have a Rega P8, with Linn Krystal cartridge, which I like, but I've heard that there may be better options.

I have Sound Lab electrostatic speakers, Ypsilon Hyperior amplifiers, an Ypsilon PST-100 Mk2 pre-amplifier, and am thinking about an Ypsilon phono stage to match with my system, and a turntable/cartridge.  I listen to almost entirely classical, acoustic music. 

Based on my very limited knowledge, and simple research, I've been looking at three brands, each of which is a different type of turntable: SME (suspension), AMG (mass), and Technics (direct drive).  
What are the advantages and disadvantages of the different types of turntables, and of those in particular?

Thanks.   

drbond
safebelayer
65 posts
 

@drbond

I will add my humble and less than experienced opinion. Less than because I do not have a system that compares with yours. Having said that, if I was looking at spending $30k for a phono preamp, not to mention the cost for the rest of your system, I would be looking in the $40k-75k arena of turntable, arm, & cartridge combinations...at least. So, this is what this pauper would do:

1. Follow @terry9 advice. Get on a plane or three and invest in listening sessions. You’re going to spend 10’s of thousands of 💵, do this foundational work.

2. Be patient

3. Do more research on other turntables, tonearms, and cartridges.

4. Reach out to Jeff Dorgay with Tone Publications. He’s very knowledgeable and has extra systems as spendy as yours. He’s also not a pompous #@&! like a certain self-proclaimed analog expert who won’t review certain tables because he doesn’t like the design, engineering or the fact the mfr doesn’t bow to his excellency. Sorry, back to the point. Jeff’s a great guy.

5. Check out Basis Audio. The late A.J. Conti dedicated his life to turntable and tonearm engineering. They have standard bearing and air based turntable systems. You can hear for yourself which you prefer. Their bearings do not go bad...period.

6. Choose two different cartridges, one being Koetsu and the other ____?_____. Everyone should have a Koetsu If they can afford it. If you get two tonearms, you’ll never regret having two setups. Regarding a mono setup, I ask myself, "how often will I play a mono album?" If it’s 1:100 or more, I’d rather spend the extra 💵 on better vinyl or something else. That’s me.

7. @millercarbon has good advice regarding the cost to performance ratio of a table/tonearm compared to cartridge. That said, I think you’re investing enough in the rig that short changing your cartridge selection would be criminal or near to it. No disrespect to mc, but a $15k cartridge should not only not be overlooked but rather expected given what you are likely to spend on the tt/arm combo.

8. Be patient

Goodluck. Please share your experiences listening to different rigs, dealer encounters, and final decision. Thank you for the invite into your journey.

millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 

Koetsu are so good, even their "budget" entry level is magic.

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,227 posts
 

@terry9 , The fields a magnetic thrust bearing generates are a constant, not oscillating as a motor would do. I wondered if there might be a steady attraction or repulsion so I measured tracking force across the entire record including right at the spindle. It was perfectly constant. The magnets are far enough away that they do not affect the cartridge. As Raul mentions the heavier the platter the higher the resonance frequency and there is no practical way to dampen an air thrust bearing. All you can do is adjust the frequency it resonates at. Magnetic thrust bearings have the same problem but you do not have to worry about air currents and the noise they might make. I have a Sota Cosmos and as far as I can tell it acts just like a solid thrust bearing with but with no noise. I am pretty sure rumble levels are lower but records have a certain amount of built in rumble from very little to horrendous. 

@rauliruegas , Any body in movement that is sprung has a resonance frequency. I think terry9 fails to realize that an air bearing and drive of any nature provide more than enough energy to get things going if the table is not well designed. I do not like air bearings at all including those used in tonearms. The complexity is not necessary and air currents can cause problems if they are aimed in the wrong direction.

I'm not sure what you mean about MF. He is in love with whatever costs the most. It certainly won't be the Motus II. It is too cheap. Peter Ledermann thinks it's the cats meow. It draws my attention because it is the first DD table I know of with a suspension.  

@alexberger , the Lenco L78 is a museum piece. In this day and age it is unlistenable.

@millercarbon , having owned a Rosewood Signature Platinum I can attest to the fact that Koetsus are possibly the worst tracking expensive cartridges made. Fortunately. you have found a Strain Gauge which might be the best tracking cartridge ever made. I listened to one for several hours last weekend, an 810 I believe. 

@safebelayer , I am not entirely sure but Basis may be slipping after AJ's passing. They are starting to make things of questionable benefit to jack the price. Things that I know AJ would not do. I live right around the corner from Basis and spoke with AJ on several occasions. They still make a great turntable but my favorite was the Debut Vacuum.  

rsf507
2,235 posts
 

@mijostyn what did you think of the Strain gauge cartridge? Did you compare to another SoundSmith cartridge? Is it worth the $$$?

terry9
2,244 posts
 

@mijostyn

"Raul mentions the heavier the platter the higher the resonance frequency and there is no practical way to dampen an air thrust bearing. All you can do is adjust the frequency it resonates at"

Not so. A properly designed platter does not resonate. Walker uses lead loaded epoxy, so I understand. Nottingham uses sculpted cast iron topped with carbon composite. TechDAS uses 5 layers of metal, according to their literature. I use sculpted cast iron topped with an inch of graphite, 45 kg, and although each section rings (near 500Hz and 2000Hz) the combination is DEAD.

Further, not all air bearings are created equal. I use porous graphite air bearings, which acts as a final damping filter.

"I think terry9 fails to realize that an air bearing and drive of any nature provide more than enough energy to get things going if the table is not well designed"

Think again. I suggest that you listen to an air TT that has been properly thought out.

 

More to discover