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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
fredfung2021's avatar
fredfung2021
17 posts
 

thanks for the review Jay, i am on the beginning of my journey and have modest mc 252 and bookshelf Vienna Haydn.i had ML Scenarios that went dull. any recommendations for speakers?

psnyder149's avatar
psnyder149
158 posts
 

Viber6,

I don’t know if statistical analysis was part of your medical training or not.  It was part of my Economics training and you are incorrect in your conclusion about how I evaluated the statistics.  Absolute difference is meaningless, only relative difference matters.  A difference of 10 out of 20 is huge.  A difference of 10 out of 1M is not statistically relevant, unless with repeated trials the difference was always between 9 and 11.  Vegas thrives on 5-15% because there are billions of samples and the variance is exceptionally small.  So my analysis being based on relative analysis is spot on.

As it relates to your Rouge, even though the trials numbered only 3 and sample size was probably small, the results were relatively stable so it was not inappropriate to focusing on 50% more preferred the Mystery amp…. 

Highlighting your lack of understanding of statistics, using your numbers…Assuming the rare disease toxin was deadly and the rate increased from .1 to .2% equates to a change from 335,000-770,000 deaths in a year in the USA which would equate to an increase in total deaths of 12% and an overall cause of death of 24% (2.85M died in prepandemic 2019 USA).  This would rank above cancer and cardiac arrest, so yes, that would be a big deal…  It would be an even bigger deal if it was centered on Brooklyn… where 20% in a year would be dead… Pretty bad for your long term business!  Interesting note… Covid-19 deaths were around 385,000 last year and this year will be over 425,000.  0-.1% matters.

Although I do agree that most people do not understand statistics, especially as it relates to risk analysis and decision making.  I will also agree that media plays on (or equally suffers from) this lack of understanding resulting in sensationalism.  If you want to further debate statistical analysis, off line please…. 

And finally for your pilot analogy.  Let’s add some additional details:  The 2 pilots are self taught, hijacked the plane and really don’t have any idea what they are talking about but are absolutely convinced they know what they are talking about… there names are psnyder149 and Viber6.  Yes, we are taking this airship down faster than the Hindenburg…

And to everyone’s gratefulness, I am done posting on what I thought would give readers a good chuckle…

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and to an even better 2022 everyone!

derekw_hawaii
95 posts
 

Butt kicking is a subjective term. Expectations and context play a role in that term. 60/40 are just numbers. Micheal Jordan and me, one on one. We stop at 100 shots made. Jordan 60. Me 40. Guess who has the bigger smile and has bragging rights?

ricevs
1,543 posts
 

There is no such thing as a perfect or neutral amp.  All amps change the sound from straight wire.  Have you ever done a straight wire bypass test of an amp?  It is possible to do.  You add an amp in between a preamp and amp and see what how it compares to nothing.  My friend was doing this back in the 70s.  Never heard of anyone doing it since.  So, none of you know what neutral "truly is".  Every thing in the chain has a sound.....including the original recording chain.  You put together a system that makes the sound the way you want or "think" it should be.  High end audio is totally subjective.....totally

I striaght wire bypass tested a silver WBT rca connector and it sounded more detailed than the straight wire.  Viber would choose this in a listening test as the more (neutral) sound.  But it is actually an exaggeration of the upper midrange and lower treble that brings more detail to the fore so it seems more detailed.  The inner detail (reverb trails, etc.) was actually less with the WBT silver RCA jack.

You will never get great sound out of a stock Pascal or IceEdge module.  They were not designed by people who listen to every little thing.  By the way, the Mytek amp uses modified Pascal modules.  The stock IceEdge module (like in Viber's amp) was not worth listening to for very long.  Only after I had spent months tweaking it and the chassis, wire, jacks and footers was I satisfied with the sound.  And yet, a stock or modified LSA amp was greatly preferred to my modded IceEdge. The AGD amps are designed by someone who listens.....this is why they sound so good.  Other relatively inexpensive class D amps that are better than stock IceEdge or Pascal are: modded Purifi, Orchard amps and Cherry amps (also improvable with mods).  Purifi has new higher powered modules coming out in Jan and combined with tweaking and a great discrete input stage will be hard to beat at under $2500 for a stereo tweaked out amp.  Mytek will be releasing a $6K stereo amp using GaNs soon that will be much better than their baby amp that Viber has.....Mytek is also going to release $20K 500 watt a channel mono blocks that should be even better.  This game never ends......just keeps getting better and better and great sound can be attained for modest sums of cash.

Listening tests done through Youtube and listened individually by people at home are not a good way to discern sound quality.  What I value is Jay's opinion....since he is right in the room with the sound.  What we "think about the sound" of his videos is just entertainment.  What I would like is for Jay to get in a new component and then burn it in and do listening tests.....and then make a video review of what he thinks about this new amp or whatever including rating scale.....and then show a few sound clips that demonstrate what he just said in the review.  I don't need no stinkin A/B listening tests.  I trust Jay.  I don't trust Youtube videos and listening to my speakers here and thinking I "know something".

You can have a dozen amps that all seem "neutral".  But still, they all sound different and some of these neutral amps will not have great depth, decay, sustain, inner detail, goose bump factor, air around instruments, natural body of the instrument, etc.  Tonality is just one factor.  The stock IceEdge module does not do very well in the things I just mentioned.  Yet, some like Viber thinks its neutral.  This game every man for himself.   Too bad.....we need to do more sharing.

i wish you all a blessed season of Love.  May you always remember what a blessing life is.  You are worthy, you are always loved.  Joy to the world!

viber6
2,444 posts
 

psnyder149,

The absolute difference of 0.1% is much more truthful and relevant than a relative difference of 100%.  That is true regardless of the entity you are evaluating.  Certainly, covid deaths are most serious, and even 0.1% is nothing to ignore.  But the headline 100% difference sounds a lot more serious than it really is.  But the important thing I said is that statistical manipulations distort the truth.  Your analogy of the 2 self taught delusional pilots deliberately distorts what I was trying to say.  The point is that if you have 2 competent pilots, they are in the minority, but they better serve the passengers than the 100 incompetent passengers in the majority.  

For audio assessment at the highest level, I look to speak to people knowledgeable about music and technical audio, and who have the necessary live unamplified music experience to support that.  My knowledge and experience is certainly not complete, so I want to hear from other competent people who play other instruments, go to concerts in halls I've never been in, etc.  If I can find 5 such people, that gives more reliable objective assessment of components than 500 people who only listen to processed rock/pop and are not interested in high fidelity.  If one is not interested in high fidelity, but rather what sounds good, try to gain useful information from such listeners about why they like something.  All you'll get is some vague assertion that he likes it but doesn't know why, or what the natural real sound of the instrument is.  He has much less real knowledge than a few people who really have expertise.  I am delighted to read the impressions of a new poster, mikem, who knows what he is talking about.  No, I don't like him merely because he has my tastes, but because of the way he describes natural music and his experiences with components of different sonic qualities.

Jay is an excellent, perceptive listener, so even though he is not one of the top musical experts I would like to meet, he has lots of experience with many levels of components, and I agree with his observations if not always with his preferences.  Now he is realizing the supreme importance of neutrality, perhaps partially due to my prodding, but more important his own careful listening which has confirmed my position on this matter.  His experience and judgment which I have verified means that I have come to trust his objective findings.  He is much more informative to me than 500 readers of this thread who don't have the experience to reliably judge sound.  

So much for the flawed harping on statistics.  More generally, do you value a few trusted friends, or do you crave 1000's of acquaintances as a politician would?  Always go for quality rather than quantity in everything you do in life.

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