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Streaming, Optimization and compromises

So, find out Covid hit some family members, Christmas called off so here at home with time on hands.

 

First off, this thread not for objectivists for whom general service computer good enough, heard your objections prior, no need to repeat.

 

Recently I've come to realization my extreme optimized mac mini will become obsolete sometime in near future. So once again investigating future server replacement.

 

First off, any quality server solution requires good power supply, whether internal or external, pure lps or combo of lps and switching such as Antipodes offers.

 

Now we come to output, I'm going to concentrate on the two most common outputs available, usb and ethernet. The first is usb, an inherently compromised digital audio interface. So we have a number of ways usb implemented in servers, usb directly off motherboard and various schemes for usb optimization. Directly off motherboard is serious compromise, noise inherent to motherboard, add to that running added processes to motherboard, therefore,  need to act as streamer in addition to server, which adds even more noise. Also, using motherboard power supply and motherboard clocking, all are serious compromises. Now, we can optimize usb output either internal or external, dedicated power supplies and clocking can improve usb out. In spite of all this, still have inherent liabilities of usb.

 

And now we come to ethernet out, a superior solution in my experience. I've bridged thunderbolt as ethernet out on my mac mini, far superior sound quality to the motherboard usb out. While I can't directly speak to superiority of ethernet to usb outputs on all servers, for sake of discussion I'll presume this to be true. My reasoning for this is with ethernet out one has option for FMC (fiber) and outboard streamer. Fiber eliminates all noise prior to FMC and outboard streaming relieves motherboard of those duties and isolates many choices of optimized streamer and dedicated power supplies for those steamers. These streamers will also optimize usb with dedicated clock. Your could also have many options of streamer/dac with ethernet out.

 

The way I see it, even ethernet out is somewhat compromised in that in order to take advantage of fiber's advantages one must use FMC. I'm now beginning to see fiber output on servers, Sonictransporter I9 is one I know of. Advantage of this is eliminating clutter in form of one FMC and attendant lps, although in my case requires FMC adapter.

 

At this point, I'd suggest ultimate streaming solution would be fiber out server to fiber capable streaming dac, lowest noise and reduction of clutter. Until this happens I see all present solutions as compromised to some degree. As far as my top choices for off the shelf solutions at this very moment. Antipodes, Innuos both have ethernet out options, both compromised usb outs except on highest level models. Mojo Audio Deja Vu has both optimized usb and ethernet on board.

 

What do others have to say in regard to my criticisms of usb outputs vs ethernet outs? Have any of you directly compared optimized usb to optimized ethernet outs on same server in your own setup? My take is usb meaningless, and if ethernet out is preferred setup, most server moves will be lateral for me. Doubtless  better usb out solutions available vs my  lousy mac mini usb outs, again, this not part of my question. Also, I'm not looking at streaming dacs in this equation. I'm happy with present dac with optimized usb in at this point. My discussion is only meant to compare server usb vs ethernet out interfacing with usb dacs.

sns
sbank's avatar
sbank
3,378 posts
 

@sns Your thorough research will pay off. Sort of building on "measure twice, cut once". Keep us posted! Cheers,

Spencer

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sonic79
80 posts
 

For most of us the best we can do is to convert to fiber as early in the chain as possible. In my case I have coax running into house from the road, and so the earliest opportunity to convert to fiber is after the modem. Better yet would be having 10GbE service so you have a fiber modem, but availability and cost of fiber service is detrimental. I researched coax modems with SFP ports without success. It makes sense why such a thing doesn't exist, as the two mediums are contradictory. This means next best option is either FMC or switch right after modem.

Fiber optic cable is so inexpensive that converting to fiber early in the chain actually saves money if running long lengths of cable is needed. A 20m fiber cable is under $20, while cat6 UTP could be over $100. Then the noise rejection property of fiber is enjoyed. A long run of UTP snaking through the house has many opportunities to collect RFI.

One last bit of advice is to avoid going through a router if possible. This is one of the most extreme sources of RFI in a household. I had to plan a chain that completely bypasses the router.

sns OP
3,198 posts
 

I've thought much about entire stream chain. I don't have fiber internet provider, so I run modem relatively close to system, ie longer coax vs. ethernet cable. So short AQ Vodka from modem to router, router w/lps short run aq vodka to router and NAS.  I tried the audiophile switch after router, no good for me. But yes, I agree FMC between router and server/NAS would be definite upgrade. Issue is four FMC, four lps for FMC unless I was to run cheap switching ps. I could go with two FMC for server only, keep NAS direct from router, so streams would be optimized, NAS not.. There is no doubt router to server and NAS weakest link in my setup.

 

Now, I do wish I could do without router and wifi altogether, I could make this work  with much inconvenience. Same audiophile switch I don't like could work in this case. In fact, I will run temp experiment with this setup just to see router's influence on sound.

 

I do take emi/rfi seriously, have Trifield meter, have provided rfi shielding where necessary. You wouldn't believe how much rfi comes off transformers, they are major contributor to noise, wifi needs no introduction, terrible thing. Anyway, I've had to make compromises, just as we all do in this realm. This emi/rfi thing is why I like totally discreet streaming setup, no streamer dac, no server/streamer, no displays.

sonic79
80 posts
 

The NAS complicates things. Perhaps try this:

Ethernet from modem into Buffalo BS-GS2016 switch

Fiber optic from switch into NAS with SFP port

Second fiber optic cable from switch into server with fiber NIC

Either ethernet from switch into SOtM, or ethernet from server into SOtM

-OR-

Fiber from server into OpticalRendu or SignatureRendu

Retain router purely for controlling the server headlessly

This would require buying a BS-GS2016 switch and a new NAS with SFP port. The new server you build should have a dual port fiber NIC. You completely bypass the router (WiFi only needed to connect your tablet used to control the server headlessly). The Buffalo BS-GS2016 switch is a popular choice for a high-end switch. RenoLabs, Melco, AfterDark, and some other brands all use the BS-GS2016 PCB. You can easily modify it to be powered by a LPS. You would then have a top notch switch for not much cost. They are more difficult to find these days since audiophiles discovered it and bought them up.

Buy a new NAS with SFP port to allow for straight fiber connection. No need for a FMC. Alternative option is to transfer your local files to a SSD inside the new server, eliminating the NAS. The SSD can be powered by a dedicated 5v source.

Consider replacing the SOtM with an OpticalRendu or SignatureRendu, both of which have SFP ports. This eliminates another FMC if you want a fiber connection to your streamer/Roon endpoint.

I would try to simplify things as much as possible. Having FMC's and cables and power supplies all over the place would drive me insane.

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