Elrog 300b vs we300b

@david_ten I've heard this claim a number of times, not my experience, various driver tubes in two 845SET, one 2a3 and 300B, I've always heard difference between output tubes, easy to hear. My argument for stating all boutique 300B tubes are nice based on many reviews over many years, flavors described, but don't recall a single review stating any of these tubes having major sound quality flaw. Reliability still overriding factor for me in choosing between any of these tubes.

Also,  my dismissing of KR845 should be taken in context, this was many years ago, quite possible new production KR845 much different than older production.

@sns   Thanks for your response. Can you address this more specifically...as in:

- would choice of driver tube by the designer/builder of a 2A3 amp (for example purposes only...feel free to substitute for another power tube) contribute to differences in the same (or more; or less) league as do different 2A3 tube choices?  Thanks, - David.

I've heard this claim a number of times, not my experience, various driver tubes in two 845SET, one 2a3 and 300B, I've always heard difference between output tubes, easy to hear.

Well, I have only single example based on personal experience. My AA Carissa Sig had 6922 and 12bh7 drivers vs 300B drivers in Coincident. A bit of time went by and system used at that time had changed somewhat in between AA and Coincident in system, but right off bat I thought Coincident had a bit more natural sound quality. Now, was this due to 300b vs 6922/12Bh7 driver tubes or system changes, or aural memory faulty? I recall thinking 300B had something to do with this. So, yes I suspect driver tubes make a difference. But important point here, I easily heard differences in power tubes with both amps.

I have no doubt there is magic in getting just the right driver and output/power tube to sing in tandem, I can't give specifics as to which combo is best for any particular amp, system or listener. Hopefully, our amp designers have chosen best combo for that particular circuit. It would be cool to have an amp that could use multiple driver tubes to hear effect of these tubes.

@david_ten  At some point after Acme 300B fully burned in I'll return to Coincident 845 in system and compare present Shuguang Black Treasure 300B as driver vs Acme. Based on 6moons review of Coincident monoblock 845, Linlai Elite 300B  vs can't recall cheaper tube as drivers made obvious difference to reviewer. 

@david_ten

Arthur Loesch tracked me down at the CES a few years ago, and as we chatted and toured the rooms at the Alexis Park, he mentioned that most DHT’s sound alike - if driven by a low enough source impedance and a powerful driver with *lots* of current. It’s when they are driven by feeble 5-8mA driver tubes that the characteristic 45, 2A3, 300B, or 845 signature appears. In other words, you’ll get loads of that 300B sound if all you’re using is an RC-coupled 6SN7."

The esteemed SET maven Arthur Loesch (Haven’t seen his name in quite some time) seems to be making 2 points.

1 DHT tube require a high current driver tube to obtain optimal performance.

2 If this driver tube requirement is met then there’s little (If any) sonic signature distinctions amongst the DHT tube choices.

Well I do know that the builder of my Coincident Frankenstein 300b SET specifically chose the 6EM7 as the driver for the 300b output tubes. Citing the 6EM7 has far greater (Max of 50ma per data sheet) current capability compared to the 6SN7. He said this is exactly what a 300b tube needs to display its full potential. Also the late Roger Modjeski said the 6EM7 had enough current and power it could function as an output tube driving a speaker load.

He in fact subsequently built a 6EM7 SEP amplifier that produced 2 watts per channel (Equal to  a 45 tube). Point being if it can drive a speaker impedance, it can drive a DHT output tube. So Mr. Loesch may have a very valid point.

As to his 2nd point, I just don’t know. I’ve compared numerous 300b brands in my Frankensteins (With high current 6EM7 driver tube) and could very easily and clearly hear sonic character differences between all of them. Now granted this was using only the 300b . Whereas Mr. Loesch was comparing different DHTs (45/2A3/300b/PX 25 etc.) to each another.

As always the world of tubes is interesting and even fascinating.

Charles