I'm not all in on digital systems because I'm not all in on DACs
We were lucky to have the makers of the @Arion1 speaker line join us in another conversation. One of the points the rep made was he didn't understand what the problem was with digital among audiophiles.
I am in many ways a digital music guy. I have no vinyl and use Roon for all of my playback but this all stops when it leaves my Mytek DAC. I've taken a great deal of care in selecting my integrated amplifier, and my speakers and how they are configured. I rely heavily on OmniMic and Roon's DSP before the DAC... so why won't I just let go and go 100% digital? Why don't I use digital crossovers after my preamp and convert my system to fully active?
The answer is in a series of experiences I've had with digital playback. DAC's can sound wildly different. I'm staring at two right now. A Topping DX3 and a Mytek Brooklyn. One sounds thin and lacking energy and bass while the other sound really good.
The same thing happened to me when I was trying to upgrade from my Theta Casanova. I was looking for a processor that was HDMI friendly and inexpensive. I went through a number of them which had the same problem: Thin and gutless until I got an Oppo BluRay player which sounded better than all of them. Sadly the Oppo DAC/headphone amp was a horrible ear drill to my ears.
So I'm not against digital signal processing or DACs, but within my budget I'm not willing to give up control over the sound of my DAC to a new crossover in the chain without listening.
What are your thoughts?
@nonoise you said... "I'm not a digital guy in that I don't relish the thought of trying out all the different DACs out there. Too many flavors and choices don't get me any closer to the musical truth if they all sound different." You do realize that statement is also applicable to transports, preamps, amps and speakers, yes? Do you have any qualms about auditioning those other components? Why are DACs different?
Happy listening. |
I wish my experience was that consistent. It’s not. I’ve listened to DAC’s all over the price spectrum. I have a Mytek Brooklyn and a Topping DX3 sitting side by side in my living room. I only use the Mytek for music. The Topping was out to see if I had an issue measuring but while it's out I tried it for music to see if my memory of the previous comparison held. It did. It does not sound as good. Just does not. This sucks for me trying to buy a cheap HT processor. I repeat what I’ve said before, measuring DAC’s isnt’ science it’s quality assurance. If you want to claim you are doing science then do research and discover something new. Don’t just stop and say "we made up these measurements 20 years ago and that is all there is." To further take those old measurements and ascribe them to audio quality or desirability is further, unscientific folly. |
Yes, measuring DACs is quality assurance and as long as a DACs THD+N is beyond human audibility I’m satisfied, the engineering was competent. In my particular system any DAC before the speakers is superflous, every input goes through ADC then DAC. I’ve heard a lot of DACs as well and I make no claims as to which sounds better by memory or sighted listening. The only way to tell if they can be reliably differentiated is level matched blind testing. Not to mention the speakers distortion is exponentially greater than a competently designed DAC so I have no idea how I would "hear"a DAC unless it was really a mess. |
I’m just a caveman lawyer, but…technological obsolescence keeps me very cautious on anything digital that is expensive…I have a thesis that a simple $300 DAC released last month is probably better than a five-year old $3,000 DAC, and so I buy simple, well-reviewed DACs at modest prices, and change them up every few years, and really don’t worry about it much. Using the iFi Zen Signature v2, and it’s perfectly enjoyable day-to-day (I have music on 12 hours a day, low volume, but always there). I know I am missing out on the quality I could obtain with say a Benchmark DAC3 (and I will buy one used if I can catch it for the right price). DEQX was apparently transformational to listeners when released (I’ve not heard it), and cost $5,000, but I can’t imagine they survive unless they just sell a $500 downloadable software package at this point I have a nice vinyl setup on my rig. I use it to listen to a selection of maybe 90 albums that make sense to me to own on vinyl (love the music, sound quality, understanding the origin of the pressing, and the music is of a scale that it could have been played in my living room. Neil Young at the Cellar Door vs. Zeppelin). I use a DAC and Roon for 90% of my listening I’m looking forward to the abusive replies, but maybe this point of view is a useful way to think about where to spend money on a system when maybe 10% of our time is really listening, and most of the rest is just day-to-day pleasure Fun topic |
