Do Audio Hobbyists Commonly Fail to Fully Utilize Their Systems?
This question is polite way of asking: How many of us spend big bucks to secure the best sound we can, only to misuse or under use our equipment? IF my personal experience is anything to go by (probably not typical) many times I've done something purely ignorant which resulted in an otherwise decent system failing to perform as it could if well connected? My error in my SVS sub settings is a perfect example. This morning the timbre and soundstage is unlike I've ever heard from this chair. For a year at least I had two filters fighting each other squashing my tunes! Audiogon forums are often assessed to cure perceived problems by members however, what one doesn't know CAN harm you! (your sound that is).My short list of crazy stupid isn't by any means limited to the subwoofer setting error. A short list includes wrong tubes in wrong places, modem and router WAY TOO close to amp, speakers overly toed`in, and the list goes on...Its probably impossible to believe but apparently some of us need a "systems check up"! Wishful thinking I suppose but you know there's others who have invested hundreds if not thousands only to produce B~ sound. Check list? "FIND WEAKEST LINK HOTLINE"? Ideas?
For me, it is a willingness to learn, ask questions and periodically examine what I am doing. And to remember that the pursuit of great sound is more a journey than a destination.
If you know anything about the human body and proper exercise techniques, what will you see, on any given day, when you observe people at the gym? Improper form, ineffective movements, and ever-present risk of injury. The “waiver” takes the ownership off the hook; audiophiles call their own shots, accountable only to themselves, right?
My own answer is "yes," and failing to account for and then measure and adjust the room's acoustics is the biggest way I failed to make the most out my equipment. One of the most difficult parts of this hobby for me is the full admission that "the room wins" if you don't pay attention. After that, it's an endless chase for gear.
Way back in the Stone Age, we used to go to customers homes to test set up. Complete with DB meters and test records! We'd discover the funniest things! We are now on our own with sometimes increasingly complex systems. What possibly could go wrong? "Weakest Link Hotline" how may we help you today?
This morning the timbre and soundstage is unlike I've ever heard from this chair. For a year at least I had two filters fighting each other squashing my tunes!
You went for a year without noticing? What changed this morning? maybe you listened more intently to the music? It sounds like you expect to be perfect. So 2 filters were wrong. But you had enjoyed the music for a year before you noticed anything wrong? My point is that you apparently enjoyed the music for a year. And isn't that what this "hobby" is about?
In terms of using my system I use it every day typically 8-12 hours per day. Mishaps sure I've wired things out of phase before. I once had a pricey Edge battery powered preamp and let the power supply run down to nothing. Called Edge and they told me what a moron I was lol.
Very happy these days tubes and streaming sounds great to me.
The limiting factor for many is music choice. When your palate of musical choice is narrow your system capability will be narrow. The internet has allowed us all to bask in the brilliance of recording engineers, music production and artistic genius never seen before. Neglect it at your own peril.
Hard to generalize. I have been a very committed since I seriously began pursuing the high end in the late 70's. I would read, and continually experiment, and listen to other systems. I met few audiophiles along the way. But those that I did were very knowledgable and committed. While there was always much I did not know. I always would work diligently during each upgrade cycle until all components were balanced and optimized to the extent of my knowledge and financial ability. Then I would enjoy if for five years or more until I got the urge again. So I'd have to say... by and large I have always got the most out of my system and the few other audiophiles I have known did as well.
(To Artemus_5) Did I enjoy my system for the past year even with those filters fighting each other? Yes but....I was looking for an upgrade (always) feeling there was a "hole" in the sound somehow. (Lack of cohesion, maybe) Its hard to describe when you sense something is off. I realize that may be the case no matter the condition of the music. However, I do listen quite a lot. And, after a while one can perceive various nuances that if engaged repeatedly and on a daily basis begin to stand out. I guess what I'm getting at is this...if I describe every detail of my system down to the room acoustical factors, cables, components, the potential synchrony between these items, etc...could the perceptive amongst us identify potential "weak links" in this collection? Yes, it could be done. In fact. I hear samples of this threading its way through many posts here on Audiogon. A journey? Yes, indeed but I'm actually trying to go somewhere! Maybe I'm searching for a musical mirage just over that sand dune ahead.
I regularly do the adjustments, correct my mistakes...it always helps, then I reach a point where "enough is enough" and let it be for a while, then do some more at another time...
I've had decent gear for a while, but there were always albums that didn't sound great. I would blame it on bad recordings. This past year, I bought a new preamp, dac, and several cables. A lot of the albums that I thought were poor recordings really aren't. It was my choice of gear and cables that had been the problem. I'm sure there is still room for improvement, but I'm happy with where I'm at.
Sometimes I don't listen to my expensive system for a few days at a time. It's a luxury I can afford though and I've been an audiophile since I was a teen and now, I am retired in my mid 60's. I have zero regrets and in fact I am always exploring ways to improve the sound. When I do listen it brings me lots of joy at what I hear. Part of the challenge I enjoy is through tweaks and I love attending Audio shows. If I was in any debt or couldn't afford to do this, I wouldn't. I never buy upgrades of equipment from savings and always use disposable income for new purchases. To each his own, I guess.
I myself have to take the hobby one day at a time. And maybe each time out with it, I have to recommit.
But, I never sweat the mistakes. In fact I choose to learn everything I can from them. Been an audiophile for more than 50 yrs now, and the road to my success at it has been paved with far more of my mistakes than successes.
Mostly, I think that’s all this endeavor really is, a game of mistakes.
My success at system building has been a game of eliminating all the mistakes in the setup that I’m aware of. And yet my road getting there was paved on my embracing all the mistakes I made - every step of the way. But, if I had never kept track of those mistakes, one way or another, from the start, I never could’ve put myself in the position of being able to remove them in the end result.
The more years pass, the more value my mistakes have had to me, after all, I now have a lot more experience at making them than most, lol
But every mistake remembered, is a mistake averted, somewhere down the line.
I discovered after thinking hard and reading & experimenting that what we bought dont matter compared to the synergy factor because it is all in relation with our budget anyway...Then synergy is the first necessity...
What matter after is mechanical,electrical and especially acoustics control...
We must study and experiment... It is way more fun than buying...
I am proud of my system because i designed it as much as those who created the part...
Buying is the first step and while the synergy will take one a long way, it won't go the full distance for us on its own. At some point, we then we begin the process (that you champion so well) of attempting to unravel the mysteries of our systems' behavior and their interactions with our rooms - all that, in turn, becoming what takes us the rest of the way.
My own experience taught me that many people if not most had not the faintest idea about how to improve their system.
They think about buying "better" and costlier...
They talk cables and better dac , buying subwoofers etc...
Nothing bad about buying subwoofers or cables or dac...
But before doing this it is mandatory to learn how to control vibrations/resonance, electrical noise floor and acoustical spatial qualities and timbre performance of the speakers/room..
No sellers of gear will say that...
The race to always costlier gear is up to your budget level availability...
For most people this is impossible and anyway in my opinion illusory in many case...
How can we judge our system potential if we do not control it ?
I believe I have not made many mistakes because I have done my homework prior to each upgrade, first reading professional journals on equipment within my means, then carefully auditioning the equipment. I always looked at compatibility by comparing specifications and published measurements even though I believe the latter is not that useful because they are most often taken in an anechoic chamber and not a real life environment. As technology improved over the years, and my spend increased, every system improvement produced noticeable SQ improvements. I did make one setup error when I first moved from a PC server to an Aurender. The combined voltage output of the server and DAC overload the input of the preamp causing clipping distortion. It took me a while to research the problem, blaming the Aurender at first My quality engineering background told me to tolerance stack the specification and I found the problem which was easily solved by lowering the voltage output of the DAC. Also, I do not make system changes often. I become comfortable with my system and enjoy the music. One professional reviewer whose name and journal I do not remember stated some audiophiles have the FOMO (fear of missing out). While I know better is out there, I am happy where my system stands and I do not suffer the FOMO
I believe I have not made many mistakes because I have done my homework prior to each upgrade, first reading professional journals on equipment within my means, then carefully auditioning the equipment. I always looked at compatibility by comparing specifications and published measurements even though I believe the latter is not that useful because they are most often taken in an anechoic chamber and not a real life environment. As technology improved over the years, and my spend increased, every system improvement produced noticeable SQ improvements. I did make one setup error when I first moved from a PC server to an Aurender. The combined voltage output of the server and DAC overload the input of the preamp causing clipping distortion. It took me a while to research the problem, blaming the Aurender at first My quality engineering background told me to tolerance stack the specification and I found the problem which was easily solved by lowering the voltage output of the DAC. Also, I do not make system changes often. I become comfortable with my system and enjoy the music. One professional reviewer whose name and journal I do not remember stated some audiophiles have the FOMO (fear of missing out). While I know better is out there, I am happy where my system stands and I do not suffer the FOMO
OP Do Audio Hobbyists Commonly Fail to Fully Utilize Their Systems?
No. A’philes aren’t failing to fully utilize their systems. Rather, they put too much effort to their incapable equipment.
Has anyone achieved the fully satisfactory audio system in audio history? Yes. There are 2. One is me. Another is mahgister.
I’ve improved my audio system constantly and I can’t improve it anymore and it has stopped improving. However, I am not satisfied with it’s sound. Why not satisfied? I found all recordings in the world are bad. Whatever the audio system anyone has, the reproduction audio sounds always bad with bad sound recordings.
Why all recordings are bad sounding? Because all microphone in the world are bad. All best mics are from 1930’s~40’s. The sound of mic is getting worse. Not getting better. If you don’t agree, I won’t argue.
The mic and speaker is basically same topology. When mic sounds are getting worse, the sound of speakers is getting worse. Same goes with audio equipment. A’philes put too much effort to their incapable audio system and the system can only produce veiled and unclear sound.
FYI, hi-fi audio sounds don’t blend with the natural sound such as dog barking, washing dishes, wife’s voice, blower sound, water flowing sound, etc. That’s way your audio sounds the best when you are alone and quiet. And your brain and ears have to process (converting bad sounds as if they are not, tricking your brain) those harsh sounds that your brain gets the listener’s fatigue.
Buying $20k power cords and $ million speaker won’t change your system’s sound like my system. What you’ll get is just a different sound. It won’t be meaningfully better because it still sound like the left speaker in above video. So, don’t put too much effort (money and time) to the incapable audio equipment until the quality of recordings are better.
I have learned a lot over the years by asking people who have more experience with equipment than me, listening, reading, watching videos and being open to tweaking my systems. I’m constantly tweaking my main system because it’s a fun part of the hobby for me. I’ll A/B a setting or piece of equipment and keep the one that sounds better. I’ve learned to trust my ears which have changed over the years. My old guy ears don’t hear the high frequencies I did when I was younger so I’ve adjusted my equipment so it sounds good to me now. Enjoy the journey. I find I’ve learned a lot more from my mistakes than my successes over the years. As Hans says, enjoy the music. Happy New Year!
Back in the day, when scratch was scarce, I used speaker cable sold on a reel, without connectors. I was frequently changing out components that were on loan from friends who were overseas in the military or away on internships, etc. One time I mistakenly wired my JBL L-65’s with the polarity of the wires reversed. I was about to deal some crap on my friend regarding the sound of his Luxman amp. After I corrected my error, the sound was pure bliss.
I should clarify that only one speaker was miswired and out of phase. If I recall correctly, which is saying a lot, alcohol or other substances were involved.
I wouldn't say I misuse my equipment but at times it would probably qualify as underused. Particularly in the warmer months when I spend more time outdoors. I am constantly tweaking things though. I adjust the sub from time to time and if the speakers get moved I have to go through the whole process of placement again. Turntable settings or tube changes happen less but they do need adjustments at times. It's all part of the process and something I enjoy so no sweat.
I can confirm that my system/systems are about to get a workout tonight!
allears4u, I've made the mistakes you mention. My worst chronic mistake has been speaker placement (ironically, a zero-dollar aspect of this hobby).
Placement oversight/neglect seems common. Based on the "my system" pictures posted throughout the web, it's apparent that many people place their speakers to agree visually or fit architecturally in a room, rather than to optimize the sound.
Another category of mistake I'll mention is when to listencritically (for acoustics) and when to listen to music (to enjoy). I think I ping back and forth in a sub-optimal way.
Room acoustics can be tough. I have spent a fair amount of time and $ battling my room. I fall into the category of placement that works "visually or fit architecturally" to a certain extent. The room needs to be functional for both me and my friends. You have to make decisions on what makes your space and listening experience enjoyable. I would like to have one that suits my system better but that would require an addition, different house, or sacrifices of convenience and utilization. . I make due with what I have even though it is not ideal. Still sounds awesome but I know it could be better.
For the first 10 yrs, I made the biggest mistake just buying components and speakers without full commitment to this hobby . Iam just happy to have sounds. I did not want to learn more.This hobby to have satisfactory system you need to learn about your components, cables and speakers , develop listening skills, spend time listening a lot if you can.
Long, long road to get here, two things stand out for me. Number one is I wasn't equipment churner, first thing was finding sympatico amp/speaker, from this foundation I built out systems continually seeking out the weakest link. Weak links discovered through keeping audio journal, every listening session followed by analysis, this gave me direction or an orderly/logical path for making improvements.
Cycled through gear too quickly, ignored the synergy needed between equipment and room acoustics. Not paying enough attention to room acoustics. Not changing my seating position relative to speakers and or experimenting enough with speaker placement. Still working through all the above with tweaks, experimenting, learning everyday. Likely need to explore ground isolation / power filtration options. All the stuff that isn’t about the “next best thing”. Funny I’ll find ways to bring in a new DAC or Pre or Streamer but keep jumping over a ground isolator / filter that isn’t limiting on the available power supply even though it’s been on the top of my list for several years. Happy New Year!
No one has any idea if they are getting the most out of their playback system. Synergy between components is always subjective, unless your system uses active speakers and components that are designed for each other. There is no app that will tell you if your speakers and amp work together in the best way possible.
Audiophiles are the only animals that spend so much time and money buying a Ferrari and then adding an engine then changing the suspension then changing to another engine then changing tires 5 times all along talking about synergy and the difference that steering wheel grip material make on the punch of bass response.
Aye, Aye, sir! The game of mistakes might be just what it sometimes comes down to for me, but you're quite right, the heights can be quite high, indeed!
Also, I might might want to join that same "club" myself, really...
I have been building my system for a little over fifty years and I’m getting mighty close to “my perfect system”. I am happy to say I listen at least an hour a day, probably three hundred and thirty days a year. Have I done some foolish things in fifty years, in retrospect, yes, but I don’t think I’d be where I am without doing most of them.
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