Why I'm not adding a sub to my 2-way monitors for music

@sameyers1 Interesting advice. Chuck really enjoys taking Erik and many others to task for recommending acoustic treatments, maybe you just haven’t read enough of his posts…yet. You must be aware of what he thinks of Levinson gear…Your post was clear, lucid and not rude to the OP. Your post is also cognizant that maybe not everyone wants a forest of subwoofers and wire strung across the back fourty…

No doubt you understand that classical symphonic bass is not mono. Maybe below 100 ish hz it is..but you probably also understand the rich vibrant and loud harmonics of a scaling standup bass…way above 100 hz. A swarm is but one answer, with some texture , imaging and harmonic downsides. Flat frequency response is an upside. I know a certain Strad owner with great high passed main speakers with integral subs with 11 bands of analog EQ below 120 hz. No swarm desired or needed. High passing the main amp for magic midrange is crucial. I complimented your ability to detect clipping in your great system.

@lemonhaze is correct, RT60 is an excellent tool for working the room. Some of us have achieved near perfect control room RT60 numbers using modern measurement tools, a variety of room treatments , natural furnishings AND listening . We bring in peers to help. Fun.

Finally rock is not a good audiophile sub test, a Fender Precision or Kick drum just don’t go very low, so it’s more about mid bass slam and freeing up the mains and main amp to reproduce those IMD free as @rauliruegas so astutely noted.

:-) enjoy the music

Jim

oh, forgot to mention…i am a bass player of no note, a sometime recording engineer and host of several mastering sessions a year in my reference room. Ciao.

subs don't have to be 12" or even 10" they can be 8" or even 6". They don't have to be boxes either they can be tubes

Yes, indeed. The 3 subs I mentioned in my earlier post were discussed with my mate and his wife where I made suggestions about how they could be integrated into their room. The boxes had a small square footprint and were built to the height suited to their purpose. One was placed next to a bookcase and painted the exact same colour. The second served as a stand for a large pot plant and the third served as a side table replacing the table that had been there before. The whole installation was unobtrusive and took up very little extra space.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

The tube MC referred to allows more options. They can be used horizontally and vertically. As well as placing behind a sofa they can be used in the horizontal corners formed by the wall/ceiling junction.

6.5" drivers are common and they do not need to be specifically designed for 'subwoofer' use. If you regard them as 'acoustic equalisers' they will do something that is difficult to conceptualise if you have never heard a DBA. You get the music robbing nulls filled in and the shouty peaks tamed.

The above is suggested for owners of small rooms always complaining that they just don't have the space. If you do have the space then go to 10" or 12" drivers and enjoy the benefit of muti-subs down to a lower frequency.

The number of subs and their size depends on who wears the trousers in the house. In the above example my mate definitely wears the trousers, he just has to ask his wife which ones he can wear!  😉

Absorption, diffusion and bass trapping will take this to the next level. I have been playing with this for some time and I can tell you that some of my mates who were always introducing new and expensive components, endlessly chasing their tail, have mellowed out and are basking in their glorious sound, being more interested in the music now.

Room treatment + DBA : Audio's best kept secret.

Great, now that DBA has thoroughly been covered here, as it happens in every single discussion about subwoofers on Audiogon, may I ask that the fanboys for it go start a thread all about it and allow this thread to focus on alternatives to buying subwoofers?

That would demonstrate a lot of goodwill, respect and class.

Thank you very much.

Sameyers1 -- I don't recall how to do the neat @thing -- I replaced a similar Proceed amp with Parasound JC 1 monoblocks to drive KEF Reference 107/2s, and found they provided substantially more usable LF extension.  I suspect JC 1s might do the same for your nice Aerial 8bs.