So Many Apogees for sale, and so few takers

Chadeffect,

I had Tympani 1-D's for many years, and used to play them at fuse-blowing levels with a wide range of material -- classical, rock, movies. I never heard them rattle on a bass drum. The only time the 1-D's woofers ever got into trouble was in the cannon shots on the Telarc 1812.

The Tympani IV's and IVa's play even louder and deeper. Satie, over on the Audio Asylum measures >120 dB SPL's on his modified Tympani IV's (midrange replaced by BG Neo-8's). He uses a 2500 watt pro amp on the woofers to get those levels. As I recall, Satie does give the biggest Apogees a slight edge in dynamics over the Tympanis,, but complains that the Apogee midrange ribbon can become unstable and shrill at high SPL's.

In any case, in my experience, the Tympani bass isn't at all like the single panel bass in this regard, which is why I have a pair of IVa's now. To me, the Tympani woofers have the ideal combination of near-dynamic SPL's and extension and planar naturalism. Now, if only I could score a pair of Apogee midrange ribbons to put in them. :-)

Hi Bob (Baranyi), I'm doing great and hope you are, too. Sorry to hear you weren't able to try the Lazarus, but so it goes, and I gather you gave up on the Apogee project. Anyway, stop by next time you're up this way, I'm open just about 24/7 :-)

Hi Chadeffect,

According to the manual for my IVa's, they "can exceed 110 dB RMS at the listeners seat in a 16' x 25' room with an amplifier rated at 200 watts at 8 ohms."

Someone on the Audio Asylum measured some Tympani woofers and I think he said they started to compress at 105 dB or so. I don't remember the exact figure, but it was over 100 dB. This is in the ballpark of a dynamic woofer, which is one of the reasons I like the Tympanis so much -- the combine, for me, planar clarity with near dynamic slam and extension. The dynamic range can be increased even more if you cross a dynamic sub over at 40 Hz, relieving the Tympanis of some bottom duty.

OK, so with my somewhat smaller 1-D's, my woofers didn't bottom or rattle at fuse blowing levels, which was with the 2-1/2 amp fuses. That would be over 25 watts RMS = more than 250-2500 watts on the peaks (since music has a 10-20 dB peak/average ratio), and we're only talking about the tweeters. As I think I said, the only time the woofers ever bottomed or sounded unhappy was on the Telarc 1812.

That SPL capability is why Satie went with the Tympanis -- there was a long discussion about 120 dB+ SPL levels from planars on the Audio Asylum. He put a 2500 watt pro amp on the IV's woofer panels (a bit less efficient than the IVa's) to get that kind of output. No problem, the woofers aren't even fused because they have so much thermal radiating area. You'll hit the magnets before you'll risk melting them.

At the same time, in my experience, while the Tympanis will do peaks in the 118 db @ 1 meter + range that's the bare minimum for plausible if not completely accurate reproduction of classical music (and too low for jazz), neither the Tympanis nor most audiophile dynamics can put out the uncompressed levels at the listening seat tht you need for reproduction of peaks at natural levels.

Big studio monitors can do this and it's one of the few areas in which I found the sound in the studio superior to home reproduction. Horns can as well. So I know exactly what you're saying about dynamic freedom. And I agree that almost no planar will do it, and almost no consumer dynamic. (I say "almost" because the Wisdom planars will apparently put out that kind of SPL and more, at IIRC $60,000 per side. They use some very interesting technology, including silver foam to remove heat from the planar tweeter.)

Great suggestion about Graz, BTW, thanks.

Hi josh,

Very interesting. I wonder if maybe some of the lower perceived loudness from the panel is about phase? There can be a diffuse nature to planar sound. Lacking that initial impact you get from a big studio monitor or horn.

Placement from the rear wall and side wall with soft furnishing behind the panel always helped in my experience. Somehow focussing it and making it more coherent. Also using extremely good source and amps of course!

I had forgotten about Wisdom speakers. I have never heard them. But there was a model I admired from afar. I think it was the called the LS4. It seems to hook on the wall. I wonder how they get around that congested sound you would get it you tried that proximity to the rear wall with a maggie or Apogee?

Anyone know why Wisdom speakers are so expensive? Or is that just their wisdom?