So Many Apogees for sale, and so few takers

Nismo,

That is absolutely not true!!! All is much too broad of a generalization! I have Mini Grands that look and sound great. Original owner and handled with TLC and high quality amplification. They have many years left in them before they need any doctoring.

Chadeffect,

I had Tympani 1-D's for many years, and used to play them at fuse-blowing levels with a wide range of material -- classical, rock, movies. I never heard them rattle on a bass drum. The only time the 1-D's woofers ever got into trouble was in the cannon shots on the Telarc 1812.

The Tympani IV's and IVa's play even louder and deeper. Satie, over on the Audio Asylum measures >120 dB SPL's on his modified Tympani IV's (midrange replaced by BG Neo-8's). He uses a 2500 watt pro amp on the woofers to get those levels. As I recall, Satie does give the biggest Apogees a slight edge in dynamics over the Tympanis,, but complains that the Apogee midrange ribbon can become unstable and shrill at high SPL's.

In any case, in my experience, the Tympani bass isn't at all like the single panel bass in this regard, which is why I have a pair of IVa's now. To me, the Tympani woofers have the ideal combination of near-dynamic SPL's and extension and planar naturalism. Now, if only I could score a pair of Apogee midrange ribbons to put in them. :-)

Hi Bob (Baranyi), I'm doing great and hope you are, too. Sorry to hear you weren't able to try the Lazarus, but so it goes, and I gather you gave up on the Apogee project. Anyway, stop by next time you're up this way, I'm open just about 24/7 :-)

Hi Josh358,

It's been a while since I heard the Tymps. I take your point. They were lovely. I cannot imagine them capable of 120db no matter how much power was used.

If only I was bright enough to do the maths! I'm guessing but 4ohm and 85db/w@ 1m sensitivity would need a lot of power for 120db. Surely into 3 or 4,000w to even get close let alone to not burn out something.

The type of startling dynamic swings I am meaning are not possible with planars unfortunately. The only reason I moved away from them to be honest.

Power only gets you so far. I tried. You can get grip and deeper bass, but never that confidence that someone hit something really hard or blew a trumpet ffff without that slight softening. Get someone to blow a trumpet loud in your room. You will jump out of your skin!

As brilliant as the planars I had were in every other area, there was always a constriction that one gets used to once you get beyond a medium to high SPL.

I used multiple subs to help pressure the room which helped to a point, but I doubt I could get much higher than 100 db peaks effortlessly with full programme music.

Try Kraftwerks minimum maximum on the maggie and measure the SPL. I reckon at 90db the bass panel will be compressing and rattling against the magnets or resonating the panel with the bass drum. Even with an arc welder as an amp and spiked braced stands with weight on them. But I completely understand your love.

Have a word with Graz re your Apogee mids... You will be sorted right out. His ribbons are excellent.

I had epic listening sessions with modified Maggies and reconditioned Apogees. Fabulous speakers.

I fell for high sensitivity horns in the form of the AG Trio with flea power amps. My final resting place! They have the naturalness and speed with dynamic freedom you can only dream of in planar land. It allows the use of extremely linear amps with single gain stages. This alone is a revelation in sonics especially for layering, naturalness and timbre.

Hi Chadeffect,

According to the manual for my IVa's, they "can exceed 110 dB RMS at the listeners seat in a 16' x 25' room with an amplifier rated at 200 watts at 8 ohms."

Someone on the Audio Asylum measured some Tympani woofers and I think he said they started to compress at 105 dB or so. I don't remember the exact figure, but it was over 100 dB. This is in the ballpark of a dynamic woofer, which is one of the reasons I like the Tympanis so much -- the combine, for me, planar clarity with near dynamic slam and extension. The dynamic range can be increased even more if you cross a dynamic sub over at 40 Hz, relieving the Tympanis of some bottom duty.

OK, so with my somewhat smaller 1-D's, my woofers didn't bottom or rattle at fuse blowing levels, which was with the 2-1/2 amp fuses. That would be over 25 watts RMS = more than 250-2500 watts on the peaks (since music has a 10-20 dB peak/average ratio), and we're only talking about the tweeters. As I think I said, the only time the woofers ever bottomed or sounded unhappy was on the Telarc 1812.

That SPL capability is why Satie went with the Tympanis -- there was a long discussion about 120 dB+ SPL levels from planars on the Audio Asylum. He put a 2500 watt pro amp on the IV's woofer panels (a bit less efficient than the IVa's) to get that kind of output. No problem, the woofers aren't even fused because they have so much thermal radiating area. You'll hit the magnets before you'll risk melting them.

At the same time, in my experience, while the Tympanis will do peaks in the 118 db @ 1 meter + range that's the bare minimum for plausible if not completely accurate reproduction of classical music (and too low for jazz), neither the Tympanis nor most audiophile dynamics can put out the uncompressed levels at the listening seat tht you need for reproduction of peaks at natural levels.

Big studio monitors can do this and it's one of the few areas in which I found the sound in the studio superior to home reproduction. Horns can as well. So I know exactly what you're saying about dynamic freedom. And I agree that almost no planar will do it, and almost no consumer dynamic. (I say "almost" because the Wisdom planars will apparently put out that kind of SPL and more, at IIRC $60,000 per side. They use some very interesting technology, including silver foam to remove heat from the planar tweeter.)

Great suggestion about Graz, BTW, thanks.