Is Rap a valid musical form?


This has been way more than the progression away from tubes to SS!

Believe the world of Hip Hop has been around and evolving for around 5 decades.

And for most of that time I have dismissed and avoided that world and its “music”.

So angry, offensive and abrasive. Just a bunch of rhythmic yelling.

I believe my former thread was titled “Why Rap?”.  Through that discussion and somewhat of an understanding that this must be a new art form that engages and entertains millions if not billions. That and a long standing belief that if a type of music or a particular artist attracts many, many fans there must be substance and quality there. Even if I personally don’t particularly like it there must be something there.

Rap and the Hip Hop world was always so foreign and culturally untouchable.

Then my Rap thread and several others at that time got me rethinking my perspective and I watched a video of a group of student performance musicians at Juilliard all exclaiming their fascination with a Rap artist named Kendrick Lemar and his “masterpiece” “To Pimp a Butterfly”. I bought the double LP. Trying to listen to it turned out to be difficult because of my old view of Rap and that of the world of Hip Hop. But it was also becoming clear that this was truly something of significant interest. However, I just listened to the two discs only once-with some difficulty.

Today, after several weeks, I hesitatingly pulled the album out again. And to my surprise and actually delight hearing it with fresh ears it grabbed me and would not let go. I immediately heard the brilliance of a multi faceted, and to me, all new experience in sound. Not unlike great 20th century or progressive Jazz it evolved from section to section with a plethora of fascinating, yes musical, experiences. Tonal, atonal, percussive, rhythmic, breathing combined with incredible, energetic tongue twisting strings of mostly unintelligible words. And not merely angry yelling.

Sure, a ton of F bombs but words that don’t flow over you like lovely other genres but invade the psyche and don’t let go. Not particularly pleasant but gripping and interesting in its complexity. Words delivered with such power and drive which acted as a rhythmic counterpoint. It was impossible to turn away or turn off. 
And speaking of turned off, the experience was the opposite of that. Stories of life undeniable human. Yes, driven by bitterness, anger and raw emotion. Impossible to  dismiss it as not deeply felt.

I do think “To Pimp a Butterfly” is unique. But I also believe that there must be much more in this Hip Hop world that has deep musical interest. Some time ago I heard Drake on SNL perform a song that was amazing though not really Rap. Rather an advanced and unconventional musical form. I hear similar musical threads throughout “Pimp”. I did get a CD of Drake. “Scorpion”. I also could not absorb it in my first listen. I look forward to the next, fresh listen. I did try to hear several YouTubes of some very successful Rap artists. They mostly lacked the interesting musical themes threaded through. “Pure Rap” with just the rhythmic words-not my cup of tea. But a musically valid form none the less.

 

 

mglik

@holmz - Hah! I see so much weird stuff on these forums that I DON'T know that!  🤔  I have no doubt that there are people who think that was the first rap song....I love 'Rapture' - such a haunting melody, and I like Debbie's rap, too! 

There is a channel in Australia called SBS (“Special Broadcasting Service”), which airs all the foreign news, and does translation services. It’s sort of like a combination of PBS and NetFlix. The news shows run most of the day, and the evenings are foreign films. Tour deFrance, Dakar, etc.

They have a sub channel called NITV (“National Indigenous TV”) and show a lot of Canadian and US indigenous and African-American programs.
It was only because I saw the show “The Evolution of HipHop” that I knew that.

She was actually a fan of G.M.Flash and I think some of the other groups in NY, like the Fabulous Five (and Fab 5 Freddy).

@holmz - More than just 'she' - as the saying goes, 'Blondie is a group'! 😎 - and Chris Stein writes most of the songs. And Clem Burke is one of the greatest drummers in rock. But yeah, the lyrics in 'Rapture' pay tribute to GM Flash and Fab 5 Freddy, so no surprise there! 

What's the point of tearing down one musical genre for another?

Remember "every generation throws a hero up the pop charts"?

Rap and Hip-hop speaks to countless millions of people. Just because it does not speak so much to me personally is meaningless. 

I've definitely found some rap/hip-hop that I find very worthwhile-- Kendrick Lamar, Blood Orange, The Internet, A Tribe Called Quest, and others. These are all accomplished artists with seriously formidable musical talents that span decades.

To each his/her/there own.

I like some, but most of what I heard the dudes talking they sound like retards, du, du,du, du. Makes feel like effing myself when I hear those retards sounding dudes.

Listening to Kendrick’s “M.A.A.D City”. There are comparisons to “To Pimp a Butterfly” but it pales in comparison. So far, it just moves from one musical line to another more like other Rap. However, it does add some spoken dramatic sections.

”Butterfly” evolves the musical lines and sound effects not unlike a form of 20th century Classical. Elements of a composer like John Cage. Don’t misunderstand, Kendrick is firmly Rap but even “M.A.A.D” is even uniquely Kendrick. I enjoy the way he delivers his rap lines in an interesting rhythmic way.

But M.A.A.D., I believe, is the album which set the Billboard record of 400 weeks on the charts. Hearing it now, my opinion is that the less complex composition must be more appealing to the masses. Whereas I was held and interested in “Pimp”, not so much with “M.A.A.D”.