Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

Today I tested the USB input versus the AES input of the 005.  First I need to share the equipment involved and the setups because that is important.  In both the AES setup and the USB setup, the Grimm MU1 is the Roon server and endpoint.  I only stream Tidal redbook tracks with the MU1. I use to stream Tidal "Hi-Res" but I found that the up-sampling done by the MU1 lessens the need for "Hi-Res" streaming.

AES Setup: (Grimm MU1; Shunyata Omega AES cable into the 005). With this setup, the Grimm up-samples all redbook tracks to 176.4KHz/192Khz 24bit and I can verify the up-sample on the display of the 005.  The AES output of the MU1 is advertised to have "ultra low clock jitter".

USB Setup: (Grimm MU1; Schitt PYST USB cable > Uptone ISO Regen > Cardas Clear USB cable into the 005; ISO Regen is powered by a DXP-1A5DSC power supply which itself is powered by an iFi Elite power supply which is connected to the Shunyata Everest power distributor with a Shunyata Venom V14 Digital cable).  With USB, there is no up-sample and again I can verify this on the display of the 005.

Critical listening is done with the Sennheiser IE900 driven by the Benchmark HPA4 headphone amp.  The stock fuse was used in the 005.  The 005 and the HPA are connected to the Everest via Zavfino Silver Dart Graphene power cables.  The same model Zavfino XLRs connect 005 to HPA4.

I'm going to get straight to the point regarding the results. The AES Setup wins hands down!  Based on my musical preferences, I don't believe I will prefer any track that is not played from the AES output of the MU1.  And I have to emphasize  this is NOT a knock on the USB input of the 005.  I just prefer the AES optimized output of the MU1 and it has convinced me on three highly regarded DACs now that "AES" can be better than "USB" if the right streamer is utilized.  The MU1 is one of a kind in what it does so I don't expect anyone to understand exactly what I'm saying and hearing until they try it in their own system.

The musical difference:

I know it's cliche but with MU1 AES, there is a veil or two that is lifted from the presentation. The details are easier to hear and there is more clarity.  There is a sense of better "sound separation" and I can hear sound nuances easier.  The music sounded slightly louder in a good way.  A component change can cause music to sound louder if it's amplifying perceived noise/distortion and this is not good.  But I get the sense the MU1 AES is helping amplify the music itself so it's desired greater loudness. One of the best things I loved to hear with the 005 was the way percussive sounds or stick type hits would present themselves.  These types of sounds were crisp and strong and had great texture and pop.  Doing this experiment, I realized how much the MU1 AES actually played a role in making this sound.  That is to say with the USB setup, this characteristic was lessened.

Based on past similar experiments involving the MU1, I knew this was not a fair test for USB and today's experiment just reaffirms why I moved on from my USB optimized chain.  I'm not saying USB is bad because it is definitely not but the MU1 AES is just better in my experience.

@sirnui Goes to show you how unique streaming setups can be. I can see how your usb chain could be improved, but the Grimm seems to be optimized for AES.

So question is would better optimized usb beat AES in your setup? And then, could your AES setup be further optimized in which case it could rise above the optimized usb setup?

I'd like to optimize every possible scenario, but at what cost and never ending chase. We can chase what we don't have or be happy with what we do have. At this point I'm experiencing such fine sound quality from combo of optical and usb not sure I want to do further chasing.

I suppose theoreticals have played large role in my present choices. Hundred percent galvanic isolation of optical and seemingly optimal engineering efforts toward usb in 005 has focused my choices.

Streaming wide open today, so many possibilities!

@sirnui Well I'm not surprised the Grimm AES/EBU won hands down because you used a $3500 USD AES/EBU cable, but it would probably have won anyway because the USB outputs seem to be only configured for external storage, not properly designed USB signal outputs. I guess this is what "optomised for AES/EBU" means.

No Native DSD possible which would have made a good case for USB.

• Downsampling of DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 and
DXD files and streams to 4FS or 2FS with “Pure
Nyquist” decimation filter.

Don't like the idea of a "Decimation Filter", sounds nasty.

However you can play Native DSD over DOP switching on DOP in the 005, as I mentioned in the above post. You should get a better sound for DSD.

Happy Trails

@sirnui

Just goes to show there are many routes to audio nirvana, all depending on what you may have in front of the Musetec

Interesting that the earlier LKS MH-DA004 was (and still is, I think) available in two forms. A more expensive one that includes an Amanero USB board, and a less expensive one that includes just a utilitarian USB board. The latter was for those who were happy to save the money for either they already had a Singxer-like device, or were not going to use USB in any event. IIUC the DAC with the Amanero board was by far the greater seller. The Musetec, to date, does not offer the less expensive option though I think if they did the savings would surpass that on the 004. There appears to be a lot of effort to make the USB to I²S conversion in the 005 especially effective, and many of us have found it so.

There is one user on the head-fi thread though who also does not use the USB input to the Musetec. He has removed the Amanero board claiming just a bit more SQ. If you are willing to open up the DAC, removing the board is very easy. Slipping it back in, just as easy.

Different strokes.

@sns Yes, I agree the streaming possibilities today are numerous and endless. Endless too is our individual climb up the audio mountain. At certain stops, we may decide the view is too nice and stay put. Other times, we continue the climb up to seek a new view. We all have done both and both are perfect choices for the moment. Right now I’m on that next climb but I plan to stop and enjoy the view once the Fiber Box II arrives and is inserted into the system. I need to "rest" and just enjoy because I’ve been moving up at breakneck speed. Regarding optimization of particular digital input types, I don’t think we can say one type is definitively better than any other type. Based on my own experience, I believe the optimizations that one can do is limitless for any digital input type. We can just pick what we think is best and optimize (endlessly if desired).

@lordmelton I would like to describe the same type of test I did almost a year ago to provide another perspective. The DAC under test was my Benchmark DAC3 DX. The AES setup was the MU1 but the AES cable this time was a $56 Grimm TPR cable. The USB setup used an $8K USB solution whose main components were the opticalRendu, ISO Regen, Phoenix USB, and Shunyata Alpha cable. This test would decide if the MU1 would be heading back to the Netherlands or not. As we know, I kept the MU1 and sold most of the USB solution. Of all the musical qualities that I cared for, this AES setup was preferred roughly by 80%. So I still thought the USB setup did some things better. Having decided MU1 AES was my future, I replaced the TPR cable with the Omega cable. I’m going by audio memory here but the MU1/Omega combo then tipped the scales nearly to 100% AES. I had sold most of the USB solution by the time I received the Omega cable so I couldn’t repeat the test. Lesson reaffirmed: digital cables matter greatly. Regarding DOP, the MU1 does support it. I believe I have an album or two that is DSD so I may give DOP a try, if anything, to learn something new about the 005 and the system as a whole.

@melm I was aware of what that head-fi user did but I was not aware of how easy it is to remove and re-insert the USB board. Thanks for sharing this info. I’ve replaced the DSP boards on my Kii Three active speakers so removing circuit boards from high end gear would not be new to me. I will remove the USB board from the 005 and have a listen and then report back. I’m expecting to hear a difference because the main premise of removing any piece of circuitry (if it can be done and is not needed) is to not suffer the noise/distortions caused by that circuitry.  Side note: If removal is not an option then reducing the activity level of any circuitry should also reduce the noise level.  This has been my experience.