2. amps-preamps
  3. 175407-20253

Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...

I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires
torquerulesok
14 posts
 

Strangely enough, only yesterday was I reading through the Restek website (the manufacturer of my pre-amp). What CEO Adrianus Elschot  writes makes a lot of sense (copy/paste the German into Google Translate): while they do measure their equipment not only during the design phase but also during the manufacturing process, they also listen to each unit extensively.

 

Elschot states that measurements allow for an objective evaluation of product quality and product consistency and minimises sample variation In addition, each unit is listened to by several employees, on different days, and in different locations because each such analysis is dependent on the listener's mood and form on the day. Of course this business model can only work for small-scale manufacturers.

 

This combination of objective measurements and subjective evaluations both during R&D and during manufacturing makes for a very compelling argument that one needs both in order to make a judgement on a piece of equipment, whether it be as a manufacturer, a reviewer, or a customer. 

 

As an aside, I believe Restek, Krell and other high-end manufacturers who encourage the sustainability aspect of our hobby by ignoring the trend towards planned obsolescence and offering servicing and updating of older gear deserve a shout out. 

fatdaddy2
407 posts
 

The only amps that don't have a sound are those that are turned off.

brianh61
84 posts
 

@willgolf 

Please tell me the $50K DAC was the Lampi Pacific.

I was at an audiophile club demo day a few years ago where they had Pure Audio Project speakers with the field coils driven by a prototype Lampi integrated and the Pacific DAC. I fell in love with a track by Jessica Williams that was played, Heather. I have yet to hear that reproduced the same way since. Expensive DAC but clearly audible excellence.

jpwarren58
690 posts
 

Room, different levels of hearing, monetary investment, system synergy...so many factors go into this topic. I have 8 mid-level amps and none are significantly different to me. Number 9 just showed up and it may prove me wrong. Too soon to tell and my "measurement system" is 100% subjective. 

jonwolfpell
417 posts
 

I could tell electronics that were rated & tested similarly sounded different in high school w/ my large advent speakers & Pioneer vs Kenwood vs Marantz receivers.

The extreme example of this is tube vs solid state power amps. Even though the tuned amp rated more or less the same as a similarly spec’d transistor unit, we all know they will likely sound quite differently. Generally speaking the tube may suffer a bit in the frequency extremes the really good & often expensive ones often don’t) but have a richer & fuller midrange with more air & space which could be called imaging. 
 

If measurements were all that mattered in sound reproduction, then why should anyone buy anything more expensive than the Benchmark line of nice & reasonably priced solid state stuff? John Atkinson says these measure as good as anything he’s tested, especially their preamp. 
 

My theory of product value in most things is you don’t always get what you pay for but you very rarely get what you don’t pay for. 

More to discover