How to choose an upgraded tonearm.

Tablejockey- what are you referring to with "Lyra’s pre 3d/gimbal"? I tried googling that but came up empty. There’s no 3D gimbal on the VPI or Lyra site I could find. I would like to look it up since you mention it. That’s a good idea to call VPI .about other aftermarket tonearms that may work on their tables. I tried them a couple days ago but no one was around to talk to.

Mulveling, I do need to learn about tonearms first, as I really know little to nothing about them. It might be hard to believe, and my wife never could, how much I enjoy engaging in the analysis part of any search or project, When I haven’t the disposable cash to make a new purchase it’s the perfect time for that too.

I looked up the Gimbal Fatboy you mentioned That;s anoher one in the $4000 plus range. There must be some good gimbal arm for half that which might fit the VPI Classic 2, maybe not.

I will be sticking with the VPI Classic 2 as I’ve other things I’d like to be doing other than fiddling around with continued and expensive audio upgrades,. Heck, I kept my B&O Beogram 4002 turntable for forty years and was perfectly happy with it until kept breaking down So I figure to keep the VPI table until I’m at least age 107 then do another turntable upgrade. By the same token If I do drill some holes in the Classic 2’s base, it’ll be my heirs who take a loss on that, so no worries there.

Mike

Daveyf, I am still curious about what sonic differences an arm can make. Any input on that, you or anyone out there?.

I sure hope I’m not strictly limited to expensive VPI tonearms, but maybe that is the case like with your Linn. I really hate the thought of putting an additional $4-5,000 into a tonearm. But maybe that’s the only realistic option to get the best out of the Lyra Kleos. Maybe the dual pivot will help wring enough out of the Kleos with my current tonearm to make this a minor issue. We’ll see. 

I would wait and fit the Kleos to the current arm but do use antiskate, VPI are wrong about that. Lyra specify a VTF that aligns the coil optimally in the field of their magnet system but if the coil is displaced laterally by the wrong or no antiskate that’s a bit of a waste of time. The other problem is a VTF that varies as the arm swings in the vertical plane because when adjusted the centre of gravity is at a point below and in front of the pivot point.. If you measure VTF at anything but the height of the playing surface your measurement will be wrong. You will also find that VTF needs readjusting after changing VTA. So VTF as well as VTA will differ with record thickness, unless you have the micrometer tower and readjust for each record. I used to run  a Naim Aro with a Transfiguration cartridge, another with ring magnets and set VTA and VTF by ear but used measurement to keeps track of changes, even though to get around 2.1g at the record my scales were reading 2.44g. There is a hand and sensitive spirit level that comes with an Aro and can be placed on the flat topped cup above the pivot to keep an eye on VTA and azimuth, the VPI has the armleads in the way. Some would resort to a USB microscope to set SRA directly, I’ve never tried. Your ears should be the final arbiter.

Where the unipivots tend to win out is eliminating the grain from the sound, if they don’t blow it by having low pressure metal to metal contact elsewhere in their design, like the Aro has with its standard counterweight but even there the effect is less than most gimbal arms. @mijostyn uses a Schröder CB which magnetically stabilises its bearing races and has a well damped armtube too. The 4point tries for a gimbal like bearing with high pressure point contacts and the Triplanar uses very high spec bearings to try to have the best of both worlds. The Well Tempered LTD is another attempt to address this and there are a couple of other string based designs, one of which I now use, and like mijostyn’s CB also from Schröder, in the form of his Reference arm.This uses a very strong magnet to keep a piece of string under high tension but the magnets are shaped to maintain a neutral balance effect. 

Incidently @mijostyn I had a similar problem with my Schröder counterweight being too heavy for the Dynavector 17D3 I wanted to fit but found that the brass cartridge mounting plate option, which adds around 5g over the aluminium one, got round that. The effective mass of around 18g wasn’t a problem despite the compliance of the DV.

@yeti42 , unfortunately, the heavy plate took the tonearm mass up too high for the cartridges I currently have. Schroder does have optional weights but since I have a lath and brass rod is easy to order I made several weights of various sizes. The only clue that they are not from Schroder is that the color of the brass I used is a shade darker. Going to the lighter weight lower's the arms mass and limits inertia improving the arm's tracking. I put a really warped record on which defeated the vacuum clamping and the Schroder danced beautifully, many arms would have gone airborne. 

My own opinion on unipivot arms is a lot more dismal than yeti42's. Unless you are talking about either the Basis or Graham arms I strongly advise against Unipivot arms. Both of these arms are overpriced and the Basis is really a bipivot arm. The Graham is a magnetically stabilized unipivot. IMHO the arms I mentioned perform just as well or better and are much more realistically priced.

The Lyra Lambda cartridges are designed so that their coils are in perfect alignment at the recommended tracking force and anti skating. Which intuitively would seem to be of obvious benefit but, a well designed magnetic system will provide a very uniform field strength across the gap between the poles. The only cartridge alignment would be critical would be the VDH cartridges that do away with the front pole piece. While there might be a benefit with the shorter cantilever this allows I personally do not care for the design but I have not listened to one so I should keep my mouth shut, a trait I am obviously not proficient at.  

@skyscraper , for what it is worth, Jonathan Carr has made comments in his marketing that would indicate that he does not like his cartridges in unipivot arms. You have to look at the tonearm and cartridge as one unit. They have to work together to do the job correctly. Any of these arms will seriously outperform what you are using now and will work great with Lyra cartridges. Will you hear the difference? There is no way I can know that. It depends on your sensitivity  and your situation, system, setup, room, etc. I can tell you with my system and my ears there is no contest. 

@mulveling , you can bolt any tonearm to any table assuming there is enough real estate. It might take some machining and cleverness but it can be done. My favorite way is to re-machine the tonearm area to accept a removable tonearm board. If you pick the right arm you may actually improve resale value. 

I’ve run my SPU Royal N at ~3g and on my worst wavy warped records it’s failed to leave the groove or even produce audible mis tracking. As I mentioned above My arm in its heaviest form has an effective mass of 18g, the cartridge and adaptor weigh 15.7g and the quite long brass screws a bit over 2g so there is around 36g countering the 8μm/Nm @10Hz compliance. If the cartridge is becoming airborne then there’s a mismatch. My Decca Maroon in the Aro would be an example of the latter and that did leave the groove without a bit more mass at the headshell.

As the VPI arm is in hand put it to the test before contemplating replacing it, assuming you do your own setting  up and you’ll gain experience. It at least gives you a baseline.