How to choose an upgraded tonearm.

I can agree with the statement by @ghdprentice  that a 'Turntable sound is very personal' and that the choice made for Isolation is of importance.

I started out with Belt Drives, and followed spending many years with Idler Drive and today have a DD as my most used TT.

I still make sure I experience all TT Drive types to keep my ear in tune to the recognisable differences that can be perceived.

From many encountered experiences, I have found that a structure built from differing devices and materials has proven to be invaluable for supporting a TT, and in a lesser perceived impression can be quite valuable for other devices to be mounted on within a System.

One individual I know has a selection of mounting materials for their owned SUT's and one model is used seated on a 25mm Thich Stainless Steel Plate.

The use of a Footer Type in contact with the Racks Support Shelve and Sub Plinth > then a Different Footer Type in between Sub Plinth and the TT Plinth is from my experience the method that seems to offer the best for decreasing smearing and improving micro details.

The materials used in the assembly can also have an effect on how the frequency extremes are perceived as well.  

As a DIY approach a Sub Plinth can be tried in differing materials and of differing thicknesses, and enable a insight into how these assemblies can perform in a particular environment.

A Sub Plinth such as a Sand Box ( when assembled the structure will be a Three Tier Assembly of Materials) can also be produced, with a Kiln Dried Sand used as a infill material, a friend uses one in his environment and will not change it.

There are endless commercial items on offer that can extend to being as costly as a expensive TT Set Up.

The first experience of such ideas does not need to be expensive, and might prove to supply a mounting method that might allow the Kleos to show of some of its inherent values with an increased impression for the better, as managing unwanted transferral of energies within the listening environment are now better considered. 

Ghdrpentice, good luck getting to that last upgrade, certainly a worthy goal. VPI has some of that upgrade capability too as you know. Sounds like you put a lot of thought into your turntable choice and it’s paid off for you right down to having some "looks" to it.

Having a friend who’s a Linn Master Technician is fortuitous too. I mostly have friends who’ve never heard of high end stereo equipment. The only acquaintance  who has is a neighbor, who I gave all my old Phase Linear equipment and Dahlquist DQ 10’s to. I didn’t know another soul out here in the country who would have even known, much less appreciated, what that vintage equipment was.

Pindac, like you say it is important to have an effective system of vibration isolation.. I used some of techniques you mentioned in building the shelving housing my components,

The turntable itself was retrofitted with Isoacoustic feet which sit on a marble slab, floating on a layer of meshed foamlike material, sitting on a floating shelf of 3/4" cross ply Baltic birch, floating on another layer of soft mesh in turn resting on a regular 3/4" plywood connected to the side walls. I don’t know if this makes the sytem any quieter as I’ve never had the equipment situated elsewhere, but I sure hope so for the effort put into it. All the components now have the Isoacoustic brand feet for the same purpose as isolating the turntable, since that seemed to work so well in that application.

Mike

I have the Brand Solid Tech - Feet of Silence' and  Audio Technica's  - AT-616 Footers in use under my TT, and will when I have a functioning HiFi room back in place, will be trialling Panzerholz and Permali Boards in place of a Highly Compressed PUR Foam (750Kg per cubic metre) that I have been using for a few years now.

As said previously, I am happy to loan items out and the Local Group I belong to, and am meeting with today are now using the Brand Isoacoustic Footers under their TT's, CDP , CDT > DAC's and Speakers.

Very recently a New to the Group Valve Amp, during the demonstration had a noticeable looseness to the lowest Bass Notes, Isoacoustic Feet were used under the amp' and the Bass become taught to a very noticeable degree.

Drawing on experience the best way to assess an impact a material or device can have is to live with it for a period and then go in reverse to return the Set Up to the earlier used method. It will be instantaneous where the difference are to be found and at what point the change occurred.

You have nice materials acquired to be sure any further investigation into producing a support structure is chosen to be undertaken, the trials are to be supported with desirable to own footer ancillaries.

The good news is that the response to an inquiry from almost all of the forum members, is not in any way a mimic of the Caricature of the Eighties/Nineties HiFi Retail attitudes as portrayed in the Link.   

Enjoy the moment of satire.  

@skyscraper  : "  i do really like the VPI Classic 2...... I hate to think about changing it out .."

The whole issue tells that it's not what you think ( that could be wrong or rigth. ) but what you need what that Kleos needs. You bougth that cartridge because you want an overall higher/better quality room/system performance.

Reading your posts in this and your other threads maybe the best for your " brain " calm is to listen your new cartridge for a while ( with out any VPI change. ) and to look for an opportunity to listen the Kleos in other system to know if it's valid for you a change of that VPI or just stay with. Through several posts in your threads you already have all options about, so just take your time and learn through your first hand experiences with your new cartridge. Just wait for it. before you could have a total mix-up with somany different posts.

R.

Pindac, that video was a scream. Thanks. Always good to be able to laugh at yourself. I was amazed how many changes had occurred in high end audio when I tried picking up an interest in it again after having not having purchased a single new component since 1979.

Raul, I appreciate your excellent advice, and you are undoubtedly correct the Kleos would be better served by upgrading the Classic 2. However I’m pretty content with what I have now with the exception of the current Ortofon 2M Black cartridge being replaced. And I’ve been fairly well convinced an upgraded tonearm should be in the offing at a future date. But that’s where I need to stop now, as wringing the best performance possible out the Kleos is not my highest priority at present

I’d rather spend my resources, time and energy on pursuits other than audio now. I really don’t wish to do surgery on my turntable, or have to go to the trouble of selling it, or researching and finding and installing an upgraded turntable, even if it would improve my system.

I’ve already spent way more than anticipated on the Kleos alone, much less considering getting a tonearm upgrade and/or a whole new turntable. I’d prefer to move on to other pursuits. I’d like to travel and see the Sistine Chapel for example and do some other more mundane things that require time, resources and energy. I hate to be spouting such audio heresy on Audiogon, but shamefully, there it is.

I’m still enjoying the thrill of having the Classic 2 and all my other new components, and am perfectly happy with them for now. I never thought I’d have such a grand stereo system, I realize there’s always something better and you’ve pointed out some good examples, even economical ones, but I think I’ll stand pat, cool my jets for a while and enjoy what I have. Hope you understand, and thanks for all the good advice.

Mike