Amir and Blind Testing


Let me start by saying I like watching Amir from ASR, so please let’s not get harsh or the thread will be deleted. Many times, Amir has noted that when we’re inserting a new component in our system, our brains go into (to paraphrase) “analytical mode” and we start hearing imaginary improvements. He has reiterated this many times, saying that when he switched to an expensive cable he heard improvements, but when he switched back to the cheap one, he also heard improvements because the brain switches from “music enjoyment mode” to “analytical mode.” Following this logic, which I agree with, wouldn’t blind testing, or any A/B testing be compromised because our brains are always in analytical mode and therefore feeding us inaccurate data? Seems to me you need to relax for a few hours at least and listen to a variety of music before your brain can accurately assess whether something is an actual improvement.  Perhaps A/B testing is a strawman argument, because the human brain is not a spectrum analyzer.  We are too affected by our biases to come up with any valid data.  Maybe. 

chayro

Those measuremmy ears can enjoy the music better than any measuring tool can.

What human ears are able to listen to is not CUTTED linear chunk of sound measured in decibels...Decibel meter cannot evaluate acoustic meaning but can help to implement better physical conditions for his experience thats all...What i hears cannot be described by a narrow window in Hertz sorry...It is more complex than that...

Human ears/brain listen to an integrated and an integral totality of information so complex to figure out that NO TOOL right now can replace the ears/brain translated interpretation and creative system...We can add to it some electronical appendice yes to help some, for some task, but we cannot replace it in ALL his functions for now, because ears are integrated not only with the brain, BUT WITH ALL THE BODY system and even with the eyes brain system....

Read psycho-acoustic....

I own a book of 800 pages about TIMBRE perception only, and no simplistic explanation of what is timbre perception exist and will never exist... Guess why?

It is because ears are not a "tool" like other measuring tools.... Ears dont measure very restricted and specific aspect of sound ONLY AND MAINLY but create also new meaningful aspect of sound or TRANSLATE natural sound in located meaningful one and ESPECIALLY RETRIEVE very conplex information HIDDEN deep in the sound source resonant body and in his environment...

And saying that the eyes /ears interaction may create biases is not false , but it is completely ridiculous argument when someone want to discredit ALL biases, especially the one we must cultivate in acoustic to learn how to listen because he doubt that some reviewer hear what they hear and ask for blind test all the time like an opinionated children or a measurement fanatic ...

Of course placebo and nocebo effect exist in the TWO directions though, wanting to listen something or negating to have listen something... Of course blind test may be useful to eliminate biases in some necessary experiments...But nobody learn acoustic and acquired the necessary biases to do so and tune his room/system with blind test only and mainly...

We must learn HOW to listen, not erasing all biases at all cost, in the opposite we must develop and cultivate many new biases... Replacing old biases by new one...It is precisely the task of an acoustician and of a musician...

 

 

Anyway, half joking here, my room/system is anything but beautiful to see.... Too much ugly devices... Then.... No esthetical biases here for me.... 😁😊

 

By the way human ears can almost do what bats do in a great measure: read about echo localization in blind people...

And survival evolutive history did not end many thousand years ago, man create civilzation and music and language with his ears... Survival here is survival of cultures and not only survival  of the physical body by localization of sounds...

A musical sound is so complex to define that i own a 1200 pages book about it ande musical sound is not ELUCIDATED scientifically for now...It is the same phenomenon for speech sound...

 

 

«American bats will never understand French sound»-Groucho Marx 🤓

 

 

I don’t know where this notion of ears being a great tool, they’re "tools" cobbled together by millions of years of evolution they’re simply good enough for us to survive. There are tools that hear way beyond human ears just as there are tools that see way beyond the human eye.

In a word we can see the world with the ears, like some blind people already did, but we will never spoke with the eyes...Even if some particular popular idiom say so....

Hearing is complex more than the eyes and incorporate the visual system not the opposite...Ears are able to retrieve deep hidden information and translate it ...

The eye redistribute SOME of what is already spatially there...Eyes dont create a complete new world like the ears did with what we call MUSIC or SPEECH , two complete new worlds of sound anchored in the human body....

How simplistic will be someone who think we can "measure" hearing creative power, or even only his  "audible" resolutive  abilities or his interpretative power, with only a decibel meter linear scale to decide what we can hear and what we cannot ?

Any sound is a complex body of potential information not measurable by the Hertz scale sorry....

 

****  It (ears) contributes nothing to gaining knowledge about a product.  ****

Wow!  

What's the matter? Pill stuck in your throat? Correct, your subjective opinion using your ears and 'eyes' you conveniently forgot those ,  contributes nothing towards furthering knowledge about a product.  I am always amazed of the hilltop pontificating about use your ears yet nobody seems willing to do so.