2. amps-preamps
  3. 175407-20253

Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...

I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires
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rauliruegas
13,106 posts
 

@erik_squires : I know that over time bipolars, fet, mosfets, resistors, capacitors improved in several ways. Nothing is steady in audio and especially with manufacturer suppliers. All devices improvesd? maybe not but many did it.

I look your post as trying to argue or trying to tall me I’m wrong.

In my posts I posted: I can be wrong. So no problem in this issue, fine with me.

 

But reality exist: today electronics are and have higher resolution than in the past and not only because past electronics designs were manufactured with way different targets than today high-end units but because the today improved part devices .  At any period of time exist good, excellent and average designs.

I can see in your vitual Agon system that you use today " magic " caps. Why's that?

Btw, I owned the Luxman C5000 ( I neme it because you own Luxman. ) that in its time was a very good unit but can't compare with today units.

 

Anyway, measurements are an excellent tool to help audiophiles to choose the " best " alternative to match their systems’s targets and self priorities.

 

 

R.

erik_squires OP
16,379 posts
 

@rauliruegas 

My point was very narrowly focused.  You made the 1980s sound like the dark ages of semiconductor manufacturing.  The reality is that it was nothing of the sort.

ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 

"However there was a dramatic change around 1970 when Sound Technology appeared on the scene.

...

The 1000A was quickly followed by the model 1700A which was a state of the art audio measuring system which could read distortion (THD) down to 0.001%"

from Sound Technology Test Equipment

ST 1700A was introduced in 1971 and thus made with late 1960’s level technology.

IMO, the biggest improvements have come from capacitors, resistor precision and less costly, higher quality drivers which let the music through. Solid state devices, like tubes, so far exceed audio frequency requirements as to be nearly irrelevant.

holmz's avatar
holmz
2,328 posts
 

Dear @holmz : I’m not talking of theory as you and other gentlemans but about what we live day by day and what we listen through our room/systems.
​​​​​​….

Well that Benchmark AHB2 has a SINAD of 120dB.
It is getting down towards the theory side of “close to zero” distortion.

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rauliruegas
13,106 posts
 

Dear @holmz  : Nothing really new down there. Remember the vintage Sansui japanese electronics manufacturer ( I owned before Luxman c-5000 ).:

 

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/super-feedforward-system.shtml

https://audio-database.com/SANSUI/amp/au-d707f-e.html

http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/sansui-au-d11-332.html

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sansui/products.shtml

 One of those papers says technology came from 1928. I remember that I like the Sansui electronics ( I left Pioneer for Sansui. ) but nothing more than that.

Remember the Halcro DM58?. Here some of its specs:

 Solid-state monoblock power amplifier, with active power-factor correction. Inputs: 1 unbalanced, 1 balanced. Output power: >200W into 8 ohms (23dBW), >350W into 4 ohms (22.4dBW). Distortion: at full power output, all harmonic distortion orders <-114dB up to 20kHz (<4000 parts per billion or <0.0004%). THD: <-128dB at 1kHz, or <400 ppb. Intermodulation products: all <-114dB relative to power output    """

 

 

R.

 

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