Amir and Blind Testing

Amirm is coming to the question with knowledge about what type of distortion is possible, and what type of distortion is audible (given known thresholds of hearing).

If there is some OTHER form of distortion Amirm is not measuring for that would be audible...what would that be?

This is the problem I mentioned earlier. I do not believe that either Amir or the folks at PS Audio know exactly how all possible distortions (and time delays, phase changes, noise patterns, filter slopes, audible effects that change with frequency, etc.) interact to affect the sound quality the human brain hears and interprets. Thus,  SQ cannot be assessed using measurements alone. Listening must be part of the assessment. 

My summary of the P12 review on ASR is that Amir agrees that the P12 cleans up the waveform, as PS Audio intended, but that he can't measure any changes that he believes could improve the SQ when an amp is hooked up to the P12. Of course, Amir doesn't think listening is needed because he thinks his measurements tell the whole story. In contrast, PS Audio has measured and listened to the P12 during development of the product, and most users report hearing major improvements in SQ when using the P12, especially when there are significant problems with the power being supplied to the P12.

I do not believe that the folks at ASR are omniscient, and I also do not believe that the folks at PS Audio are trying to rip-off their customers.

This is the problem I mentioned earlier. I do not believe that either Amir or the folks at PS Audio know exactly how all possible distortions (and time delays, phase changes, noise patterns, filter slopes, audible effects that change with frequency, etc.) interact to affect the sound quality the human brain hears and interprets. Thus, SQ cannot be assessed using measurements alone. Listening must be part of the assessment.

Great post indeed! thanks very much....

And particularly these 2 lines...

I do not believe that the folks at ASR are omniscient, and I also do not believe that the folks at PS Audio are trying to rip-off their customers.

I'm ready glad that audio precision doesn't think like the objectivists on this forum, they actually think there is more or better measurements that can be performed in the future to better understand what we are hearing.

So you are against the idea of searching for a better and more reliable understanding of what we are hearing?

That sounds like flat-out anti-science.

I'm glad there are people out there trying to investigate these things, rather than

being happy with our current state of understanding.

Someone can be anti-science using some scientific tools at his disposal...science is also about conceptual tools linking some field to another field...

Especially in audio where acoustic and his relation to psycho-acoustic is no less a science than electronical technology when we try to UNDERSTODD listening experience...

 Audio science is no more fetichism of the tool than fetichism of the gear......

Objective measure are not only around the gear they can be around the speakers/ears/room serving the subjective perception of the timbre experience for example ....

This possibility seems to escape "our si called  scientists" here....

😁😊

prof

2,932 posts

03-23-2022 at 09:21pm

I’m ready glad that audio precision doesn’t think like the objectivists on this forum, they actually think there is more or better measurements that can be performed in the future to better understand what we are hearing.

So you are against the idea of searching for a better and more reliable understanding of what we are hearing?

That sounds like flat-out anti-science.

I’m glad there are people out there trying to investigate these things, rather than

being happy with our current state of understanding.

You need to ask two things:

1) why do some other independent measurements differ from those of ASR?

2) What happens to the dacs etc when they have been tested.
Re 1) I suspect that certain manufacturers send cherry picked equipment, and Re 2 I do not hink the dacs get returned. Amir needs to make a living after all.