Amir and Blind Testing


Let me start by saying I like watching Amir from ASR, so please let’s not get harsh or the thread will be deleted. Many times, Amir has noted that when we’re inserting a new component in our system, our brains go into (to paraphrase) “analytical mode” and we start hearing imaginary improvements. He has reiterated this many times, saying that when he switched to an expensive cable he heard improvements, but when he switched back to the cheap one, he also heard improvements because the brain switches from “music enjoyment mode” to “analytical mode.” Following this logic, which I agree with, wouldn’t blind testing, or any A/B testing be compromised because our brains are always in analytical mode and therefore feeding us inaccurate data? Seems to me you need to relax for a few hours at least and listen to a variety of music before your brain can accurately assess whether something is an actual improvement.  Perhaps A/B testing is a strawman argument, because the human brain is not a spectrum analyzer.  We are too affected by our biases to come up with any valid data.  Maybe. 

chayro

 

Not if you are making technically implausible claims...no.

In many instances (not all, but many) we really can say, through measurements, that "X is bad" or "the difference you heard was in all likelihood your imagination."

It doesn’t matter what room you listened in. That would be like saying "I saw a working Perpetual Motion Machine!" A physicist explains why that is impossible and you reply "But did you test it in the guy’s GARAGE where I saw it? If not...your opinion doesn’t count!"

 

Instead of trying to understand my point...You put something i never said in my mouth here : 😋

For sure it is POSSIBLE to say with adequate measurements that some piece of gear is badly designed... Engineers know what they do in their design and used standards ....

Where i did speak about the contrary?

But you commit to an error if you think that measuring will be enough in ALL CASES and all time to judge between two products of similar price and/or  design...

You are intelligent for sure i dont doubt it and you already said that in your first sentence: yes you are right i dont make implausible technical claims either...

Acoustic method will not transform miraculously a bad design in a good one...

But now put my posts in their context, it is necessary ALSO to correlate listening with measures...

And between an upgrade in gear for example most of the times and acoustic improvement , the greatest possible improvement could come and come often from an improving controlled acoustical environment Why?

Because no piece of gear work optimally at his peak sound level PERCEIVED quality in a bad room or in a room uncontrolled...

We must learn how to listen (acoustic/psycho-acoustic) audiophiles or engineer alike...

I never say that Amirm measuring could not be useful, i said that some of his bullying disciples make communication difficult here or there...

It is the same here where a few are agressive toward those who focus mainly on measures...I myself trust only correlation method...Because we all love sound and music at the end...

 

My best to you.... And deepest respect...We may differ on many subjects but i know that you are an honest person...

Again, if you were an metrology expert, you would know this.

Jez @deludedaudiophile Give him a break… he said he was a manager and not a technical expert.

 

… Since I was an Engineering Manager for several years with one of my responsibilities being test equipment design, calibration and repair in a major Aerospace Company I know that first hand.

I think @atmasphere did a good job in his short post w.r.t. distortion https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2377289