Can a Amp be "timeless" and compete with todays amps?


I’ve been into hi resolution audio for 20+ years, well longer than that but acquired high quality gear about that time. I veered off into other interests for 15 years but still had my system sitting idle in it’s dedicated room. I became interested in it again 6 months ago and began to update it. I still have my Rega Planar 25 table and a Dragon phono stage.  I retained my CEC TL1 transport, but replaced my DAC with a Dinafrips Venus II, I also have the Hermes DDC which I feed my CEC into as well as my Cambridge Streamer. I sold my Genesis V speakers because they were having an issue with the left channel bass and since they were out of business I had no way to fix them, it was over my head. I found someone that wanted them and was willing to repair them himself. (he is very happy with them) I replaced them with some Goldenear Triton 1.r’s which I love. So here is the nostalgia part. I still have my VAC Cla 1 Mk II pre amp and my VAC Renaissance 70/70 Mk II amp. I feel they still hold up well sonically, so my thoughts are to send them both to VAC for the Mk III updates this fall of 2022, which includes replacing any necessary parts and "voicing" them back to new as intended when they were first made. I really believe these pieces are worthy of the restoration, are newer pieces today really going to make much headway? I cannot afford to replace these items with "like" items as I am retired and the discretionary income isn’t there anymore. I just feel like they are still really good and offer a very high quality sound. I mean 8- 300 B tubes can’t be all that bad can they? I’ve voiced the pre amp with with Telefunken 12AX7’s and I have a small stash of them. Tube sound is still great right?

128x128fthompson251

so you are ditching everything you have espoused (if not self-promoted) on this forum for twenty years in order to go all-in to self-promote your new Class D amps.

Wow. Did you see me promoting our class D amps here? I simply stated the underlying engineering issue that any designer faces if they wish to advance the art.

I'm not stating anything in conflict with anything I've stated before. You'll notice that our OTLs are zero feedback- that was done because applying enough feedback to avoid brightness and harshness was never possible. Personally, I find harshness and brightness to be the biggest sin audio can commit. So they are zero feedback, class A(2), a single stage of gain, all triode, fully differential and balanced from input to output, and output transformerless. This was done to eliminate as many distortion sources as possible. It worked- the OTLs have dramatically lower distortion than any SET, are obviously more transparent on that account and have garnered a lot of nice reviews and awards in the high end press. So we know they work, as if our ears weren't telling us that:

Precisely my point , use your ears and decide. If you genuinely believe that the new betters the older alternatives then case closed as far as you’re concerned, I get it.

 

Let’s simplify negative feedback = taking something ( the AC audio signal aka music ) that has ALREADY happened, flip it around out of phase ( that’s the negative part ) and feed it back into the input where something new and unequal is happening ( unless you think sine ways are music )… then apply some critical thinking….

I will point you to this, the Amp I have is zero feedback design.

RENAISSANCE SEVENTY/SEVENTY Mk. III Dual Mono Zero Feedback All Triode Power Amplifier

FWIW. Attached is the PDF manual.

@retiredfarmer Yes, the Mk III updates were in essence the last version of this amp and preamp, so it is improved upon in their design, their finest version of them if you will.

The issue with negative feedback is tied to the maligning of the micro aspects (in time and level) of transient leading edges.

Since our hearing is based upon this area of a signal, this means that, to overstate it a hair..that..100% of our hearing is in the 1-0.5% (and less) of the signal that negative feedback makes a total mess out of.

Linear measurement wise, this small error is meaningless, as mathematical ratios may go, in mathematical weighting and evaluation.

Which has pretty well SQUAT to do with how humans hear. (the given unweighted and disconnected mathematics)

Negative feedback is, generally, a solution to a problem that humans don’t really understand. at least in the idea of book learned electrical and electronic engineers of audio gear. We have to connect the problem and the solution together and that requires an intimate understanding of the problem. the problem, or question, is the REAL specifics the REAL internal meat and neural and cranial aspects of how humans hear, in the minute and total sum details.

Until then, these methods of making audio, like class D or negative feedback will continue to be the ill ought out abominations that they are. Like idiots on gobos and crutches, trying to run a world class 100 meter dash. Bad attempt, bad understanding, wrongheaded result of dubious value.. looks good on paper, though. works like a bear dancing.

bears don’t dance, they hit the sweet spot in our minds that sees the motions as being akin to dancing so we mentally place a dancing mental envelope of interpretation over the lurching about.

With bad audio we are dealing with the aural equivalent of Pareidolia getting in the way, where we create the shape of the signal in our minds, when it’s actual clarity is not truly there in the most perfect shape it could be. We are wired to fill in, via precognition of all our history in aural ingestion and interpretation.

THAT..is /class D and high negative feedback, in a nutshell.

Some of us can hear past it and recognize these inbuilt filters and correct for them. we can see waldo, aurally.

Some cannot or they feel they see waldo well enough that he’s actually there.

good audio reproduction allows a person to put the mental aural mind scrunching and efforts away, and just listen in a totally relaxed manner to the beauty of it all.

THIS is what Ralph is talking about when he talks about what the atmosphere amps are better at (and others are also better at)

Its the difference between an aware and thinking audiophile getting off on music. Or,on the other side, the linear mind side...getting off and solving a ’puzzle’ of signal recognition and interpretation, which is work. fun for some, but it’s work, hard work. hard, edgy screechy work, work upon a signal that is purposely damaged to make some aspects more aurally obvious, or separated from the whole.. And i hate that sound, like all sane thinking people should. It is horrible and anti-music.

Since we are all individuals with different learning curves, different libraries of internal data, and individual different & differentiated meat packages we are wrapped in...this is not a place where we can lay down a black and white law that covers all potentials.

Generally...the less a person understands all of this, the more the monkey inside senses danger (unknowns!), and henceforth desires a perfect black and white answer to these complexities. So, to self protect, it sits, claws out, in fighting positon..and lays a yes/no black/white beating down on the complexities it does not cognate or understand ...and lays down beatings on audio and music fans, fans that that tell them they’ve got it completely backward.

so, to overstate it slightly to edge enhance the visual on this so the general shape of it can be seen more clearly:

This is what partially encompasses my dislike, my honest and well thought out dislike of the premise and actions of the overall shaped thing called ASR. It’s deep premise is as dumb as a bag of hammers, it is missing the real argument and question, entirely. It is insistent on hanging witches, witches of it’s own creation, witches that don’t exist. It fails to understand the entirety of it’s own core question and answer set.

It also explains the haters and the detractors here on this forum.

No written word set is perfect nor entirely accurate, so don’t take it personally or seek to chase down some minor error in form or whatnot, in with I write here. That would only amply show everyone who is reading and can grok it all...one’s lack of understanding of the issue or the nature of functional discourse.

New technology sets the bar for what is possible at the various price points. That of course does not mean all new technology is better. Avoid generalizations always.