I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.

There is creative people in all forums....But the zealots predominate in all charcterised oriented forum...

ASR is measured oriented....

Audiogon is subjective listening very oriented...

Psycho-acoustic is NEITHER of these orentations alone...But their concrete correlation in a room...

It seems to escape most that sound cannot be explained by subjective experience

nor by electrical measures on the linearity response of processors etc...

For the I. Q. spiritual factors and cultural environment and education play a greater role, openness of the mind and senses, than strictly only I.Q.

John Stuart Mill endowed with a superhuman I.Q. is not Leonardo Da Vinci nor Goethe, not Swedenborg and not Ramanujan nor Grothendieck neither Bach...His I.Q. is the same or near them....

And the highest I.Q. ever measured, he is out of any measuring scale in fact, some give him 250 or 300, which seems plausible after reading his biography, William James Sidis was very much studied in the golden age of I.Q. testing just before and after the second world war in the US decided at 12 that he never will created new technology for agressive "apes"... Freedom was his near focus and cultures...He spoke nearly any language after few weeks... He teached in a public confrence at 11 years old at Harvard fourth dimensional geometry in 1912 answering question about the new relativity theory and his time conception as the fourth dimension compared to his own spatial interpretation......This is all redacted verifiable facts ....😁😊

He deduced in a book i  have read the existence of black hole from his own thermodynamical thinking alone... He predicted the existemce of anti matter and the existence of biological matter by his own deduction....He was 16 years old and published the book under alias at twenty years old... he despised in an obsessive manner all aspect of publicity...He published books under aliases... Anyway, who among human will be proud to beat an ape at chess? His life is science fiction stuff... I speak about for those curious...His talents will humbled every one among us who think he is intelligent... Try him...It is an exrercise in humility for those who think their 20 points over the 120 barrier is a big deal... 😁😊It is not... It is only the door to a profession sorry...

Creativity is linked to the freedom of the mind soul and spirit more than to i.Q. But for sure people who struggle mentally are chained by their too numerous limits more than others...Thats all there is between I.Q. and creativity passed this 120 I.Q. barrier...

If I tried to post at ASR, similar to how I post here at audiogon.....I'd be removed in almost seconds.

 

What I see being unapologetically not accepted is posts regarding listening reports where any difference by nature of the component changes must be very small, and the listening test is done with full knowledge of what is being listened to.

I will ask, do you have proof that their insisted methodology is wrong. Not feelings, not personal experiences, not unsubstantiated articles, but solid proof their insisted methodology is wrong?

I get the impression that if I demonstrated to them that things they did not accept were audulible are, they would be amenable to the idea especially if they participated. They would then analyse it 10 ways from Sunday and figure out why.

I am coming to the conclusion the opposite is not true. Even if it was shown that you could not hear a difference you are certain exists I don't think you would accept the results.

If I tried to post at ASR, similar to how I post here at audiogon.....I’d be removed in almost seconds.

Being naive i tried the same thing, but i suffered the same circonstances... 😊 They recognise an amateur audiophile like me when they see one so to speak... Anyway the technological only mentality and hardwire focus is a limitation not less than people obsessed here by a gear brand name "colors"...

At least here i am not ridiculed for my creativity...

i understood at least how to control my room, how to decrease the noise floor, and to control vibrations by my own devices... So "nuts" they seems for some of them ....Some are pure acoustic and simple acoustic principles..

The most important one being:

For speaker A and speaker B there is also for ear Alpha a phantom speaker minus a and for ear Beta a phantom speaker minus b... These phantom speakers are real not only an illusion they are concrete "reflected" co-creator of the soundscape recorded in some album and emerge reflecting our own room control for each ear... The problem is to learn how control these speakers images with sound pressure level and frequencies timing waves front and reflected one for your listening position...I used different devices for that...

I used a foldable screen and acoustic crosstalk and acoustic crosfeed... In my primitive but effective way... Diffusers and resonators for sure also...Ordinary passive material treatment come first for sure but the real work begin AFTER minimal passive material treatment..... No headphones can compete at the end...

In a word, audio superior experience in sound quality does not end with the measuring process associated with a design and does not end after buying it and listening to some design picked by ears among all those who are good enough ...

Audio superior experience comes AFTER mechanical, electrical, acoustical and psycho-acoustical controls are put in place, never mind the price tag of the gear ...Never mind the design "color" or specs sheets, if it is not TOO bad design to begin with for sure...

Then....... 😁😊

Dont argue to death about Objective/subjective attitudes, study acoustic vocabulary instead....In acoustic vocabulary all which is objective will be correlated, at least in principle,  with all that is subjective...

@deludedaudiophile

If you watch the video about creativity, (about an hour long) you’d find that not only lawyers are entirely non creative, but that it is the same largely (very largely, bordering on overtly) for scientists as well. this is partially due to the aspect of rigor and social cohesion among the group.

But that, overall, as a group, scientists are unoriginal and not creative.

At the peak of such a group, came the few imaginative creative renaissance men (at the time it was all men, relatively), who, using their creativity CREATED science as a system of well, systematic rigor. they walked right into the depths of the chaos and pulled a system of rigor and order out of it and then formalized it, for the benefit of humanity.

then, they created a different, less evolved rung of it, called engineering, where those who could not deal with the complexities of even minor creativity and imagination, could have a place to belong and be in the world, to feel good and comfortable and to move things forward in a way that satisfied them.

That system of engineering became the orignal emergent formalization of academic systems, in Bavaria in the approximately early 1720’s through the 1750’s. It’s why the Germans, to some.. have the best polytechnic schools, to this day. Formalized Engineering is their invention.

if we go down a rung, we get to those who think similarly, within the scope of how minds work, or are categorized (loosely) we end up with dogmatism replacing the idea of learning and knowing, due to metal speed differentials, different orientations in varied technical aspects, etc. (took different things in school)

If we go down another rung, we make it to the dogmatically minded who scream ’science, fool!’, but don’t know what it means, and spend some of their time crushing beer cans on their forehead, as a replacement for academic pursuit. These are the foot soldiers of projected violence, on (audio) forums, for the most part.

If you watch the video, it might be that we can’t understand each other at all, and never will. not in this life or the next. Maybe, maybe not. Can’t really tell from here.

Nothing is definite, fact’s don’t exist and all of life is illusory, ephemeral and entirely subjective. Where..there is only one single FACT in existence... there are no others. Just the one fact exists--which is that facts DO NOT exist. Quantum paradox comes to life in the parent and progenitor of science..ie..philosophy.

Philosophy OWNS science’s ass. Totally. Irrevocably so. Philosophy and the rigors of logic in complex extremis, is what created, framed.. and gave the playground of existence TO science. Those renaissance men created the concept of objectivity, or they formalized it, and built it into formalized science, and formalized academia in/and for science.

The creatives (the literal peak and pinnacle of humanity's growth and future, BTW...humanity will literally die without them), their flowery language and all the attendant mess, are the ground that places like ASR walks on. Objectivity, like facts, absolutely does not exist, as your life is entirely subjective. Objectivity is an exercise in rigor in/of logic. Objectivity is a hypnotic game we play with ourselves.

When science runs amok it can and does become weaponized by the dogmatism inherent in a notable percentage of humanity’s minds, and it begins to eat it’s own parents and children.

So, you tell me, how well such hard, logical, reasoned and sensical posting would go over at ASR.