Is There A Big Difference Between Subwoofers From Different Manufacturers


This is likely the last thread I’ll be posting about subwoofers.

I was just wondering if there is really a big difference between subwoofers from different manufacturers if the quality of the subs (which is mostly governed by the specifications) are fairly similar. Also, with the assumption that the set up is properly done to ensure a seamless integration with the main speakers.

There have been many comparisons or experiences on subwoofers shared by members here on this forum, people who upgraded their old sub to a new seemingly superior sub. Or people who added additional subs to the system which contributed to an overall improved bass performance. I’m referring to the former, the comparison between single subs.

To cut to the chase, I understand high quality subwoofers which are essentially higher spec designs will usually produce better performance than lower spec subs. When people upgrade their subs, I assume the new subs are superior in terms of specification, either a larger sub with larger drivers, higher power output of the internal amplifier, lower frequency extension or the combination of any of the above.

Has anyone compared subs which are fairly similar in quality or performance when upgrading from the old sub?

Example. If someone upgraded from a REL T7x to an SVS SB-3000 or SB-4000, I suppose the SVS would be an upgrade since they come with larger drivers, higher power output, everything superior spec-wise. What if the models are closely spec’d? Will the subs sound fairly similar or closer to each other ?

Say, the comparison between

SVS SB-3000/4000
Rythmik F12SE / F15
REL S510 / S812 / Carbon Special or Limited

I presume the subs will still sound slightly different but the difference may not be night and day if the quality or specifications are closely matched?

 

ryder

What @mijostyn said, though I disagree with some of the prioritizations mentioned here.

With subs it’s mainly about capacity, design principle and implementation. Through this structural integrity of the enclosure and overall build quality should be "sufficient," but personally I find the need to make them inert/heavy in the extreme to be unnecessary. I’m not saying rigid, heavy cabs don’t make a difference, but to which degree and at what cost (in more than one respect)? Some may find capacity and implementation the most important, others implementation mostly, and others again (like @mijostyn) stress the importance of enclosure inertness (among other things). There are different ways to attain prowess augmenting the mains in the lower octaves.

Capacity, i.e. sheer displacement area and also sensitivity is very important in my book. All things being equal, the less those cones move the lower the distortion, and the less power needed for a given SPL the more headroom. Headroom in the lowest frequencies is paramount (where prodigious amounts of energy can be released), because more of it equates into lower distortion and a cleaner, more effortless reproduction. To boot ample displacement gives you that important physical feel and power of music - vastly overlooked, I find.

Design principle matters. Balanced force approach has been mentioned. By far most subs today use direct radiating drivers in sealed cabs, because this way they can be made as small as possible (and the cabs more easily inert) and retain extension. It’s is the most inefficient approach though, but in multiples this can be somewhat ameliorated. Still, sealed designs have max. cone movement at the tune (contrary to vented cabs and others), and moreover the exposed, direct radiating driver is prone to emit mechanical noise - not least when working harder, which smaller drives in sealed cabs and limited numbers do. Mechanical driver noise = distortion. I prefer large, efficient designs with partially or completely hidden drivers in either horn and/or bandpass variations acting as force multipliers, and with pro drivers no less than 15" in diameter. These designs also bring "inherent" bracing to their enclosures due to horn paths and other design innards, and build in plywood not least are structurally very sound.

Implementation has been covered already. I would also stress the importance of at least two subs, stereo coupling, symmetrical-to-the-mains placement and, preferably, a cross-over no lower than 80Hz. I’m aware this usually involves the need for high-passing the main speakers, and that quite a few audiophiles are against this. Such things would be more easily demonstrated with actual demos to highlight the potential advantages (depending on the ears (and preconceptions) of those who’re listening) of such a configuration, also to narrow down the specific setup context in which the high-passing of the mains has been done - which of course matters a lot to the outcome and to prevent unnecessary generalizations either for or against HP’ing of mains.

So, it’s about choosing the designs that accommodates the above, I find, and this not least calls for the need to include DIY solutions. I’d disregard brands if it means making subs very expensive to get some minimum of physical requirements. In other words, hugely expensive subs from the likes of Magico and Wilson Audio are a waste of money if you ask me, although I’m sure others may disagree. This is below the Schroeder frequency we’re talking about, resonators meant to move air efficiently, cleanly, effortlessly and acoustically well implemented. Trying to make subs into some dubious, "sophisticated" affair akin to selling the idea of expensive, single item (well, two for stereo) small 2-way standmounts is severely sidetracked marketing B.S IMHO.

@akg_ca , right on akg. No argument from me. I build my own subs because nobody makes one that sounds good for a reasonable price and I do not need the second rate electronics they stuff into the enclosures,

@phusis , good dissertation. I particularly like your comments on excursions. Larger drivers do not need to move far to displace air. Longer excursions always mean higher distortion. The notion that larger drivers are "slower" is mythology to the max. There is a limit as larger diaphragms are harder to control. I hold the line at 15" but for my own subs I stick to multiple 12" drivers. 15" drivers require much larger enclosures which would dominate the room. 

Put your hand on the subwoofer. Any vibration you feel is distortion. Stopping it is not easy. Balanced force designs are a good start but this is not enough. Bass is very powerful and stopping all resonance in an enclosure is not easy. The only commercial units I know of that do it successfully are the Magico Q series. 

Digital crossovers with delay management and room control are a godsend for subwoofers. They make integration soooo much easier. Another big plus for subwoofer performance are balanced mono amps you can place behind or next to the subs with long signal cables and very short speaker wires. Damping and control of the driver are greatly improved.

 I’d much rather have two good subs than one great one unless you’re planning on adding another great sub in the near future.  That’s all I got.  Best of luck. 

Wow! Learning so much from this thread! Crosovers, cost to sound ratio! So much to learn!!